Text version
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And we continue the debate on Dozhd (TV Rain).
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These are the debates ahead of the election to the Coordinating
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Council of the Russian opposition, and in this
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round we have with us Dmitry
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Bura.
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A civic activist, historian
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from Germany; Alexander Makshanov, chairman
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of the committee of the political party Runet Leader
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of the opposition;
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in Udmurtia. One of the—sorry, the photos are very
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small in this case. Pavel
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Shelkov, a geologist, diamond specialist, member of the Moscow
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branch of Solidarnost, co-chair
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of the commission investigating the events of May 6
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and the events in Krymsk, and Alexei Navalny
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lawyer and public political figure.
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Good
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evening. You have 30 seconds to introduce yourselves, in
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the order in which I named you. Dmitry
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Burashnikov goes first. Hello. I am here
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for a very simple reason: I
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am representing the interests of my
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associate and friend Maxim Sergeyevich
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Martsinkevich, better known as Tesak,
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who was unjustly convicted under Article 282
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Well, thanks to our state, and
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also to the colleagues who are present here.
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Thank you.
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Thank you. Alexander Makshanov, chairman
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of the committee of the political party Rut—your
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Good afternoon, dear friends, dear
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viewers. My name is Alexander
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Makshanov. I came here from the city of Izhevsk,
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and why exactly have I come here?
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You can see my thoughts,
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how I see the Coordinating Council, in my promo video.
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And what I want to convey is this: starting on the 22nd,
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there will be voting. On a person's ballot
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there will be 45 check marks. Naturally, first
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they will go to the people he
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knows, trusts, and respects.
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That is right, but I would like to say
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that people should also make a little effort
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to look at new people, new faces,
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new people and new ideas with which
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people are coming forward. Thank you. Thank you, understood. And
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Alexei Navalny, 30 seconds. Thank you. I am
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36 years old, and the last time I was able
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to vote in any kind of free election,
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or relatively free election, I was
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18 or 19. And now I am taking part in
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free elections to the Coordinating
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Council because I believe in democracy. I
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believe in popular rule. I believe that people
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should decide their own fate, that
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the best strategy and tactics for the opposition
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should be decided by those who are elected, not by those who are
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appointed by some officials from
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the presidential administration or the party
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nomenklatura. Elections, fair competition,
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debates, even with unpleasant people—this is what
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will make us stronger, and what will help
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us
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win. Thank you. Your 30 seconds are up. And
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Pavel Shelkov. Hello, friends, I greet
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you all. I believe the main task of this
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council is
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the peaceful overthrow of the occupation regime
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that prevents all of us from living. So,
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the main problem of our opposition leaders is
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that in 10 months they have not proposed
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a clear program for transforming Russia
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from a despotism into a normal European
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democratic country. So we must,
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the Coordinating Council must daily
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oppose the thieves and crooks, proving
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to the people that there is an alternative to the enrichment
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of billionaires through building bridges to
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uninhabited islands. The Coordinating Council
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must move beyond rallies.
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Your time is up. We are all on equal
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terms. We have finished introducing
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the candidates, and now my general question, or rather
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request to everyone: let's stop with
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the serious questions for a moment and begin with something very
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serious in another sense. In Russia, as always,
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there have always been difficulties with political activity and parties,
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and Russian literature
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the great Russian language
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has often replaced and performed many
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political functions. Please recall,
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quote, or name your favorite
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poem dedicated
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to freedom, political activity, rights,
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or happiness, finally. And we will start with Dmitry
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Burashnikov.
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I prefer prose, so if you'll allow me, I'll recall a prose work.
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My favorite work of prose
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by Russian
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writers about the homeland, I would say,
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or by any writers,
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would probably be *A Sportsman's Sketches*.
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All right, thank you.
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And I have the same question
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for Alexander. "If life deceives you,
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do not grieve, do not be angry; on the day of despondency
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be resigned—believe, the day of joy will come.
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The heart lives in the future; the present is dreary.
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Everything is fleeting, everything will pass; and what has passed
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will become
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dear." Thank you for not asking us
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to dance; I think I will
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refrain from reciting. I
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will refrain from reciting. Let us
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simply do something, act in such a
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way that perhaps someday someone
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will compose about us or about our time
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similar
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poems. All right, I would be very glad. And Pavel
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Shelkov. Well, I will also quote one of our
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classics: "Autocracy, villain! I hate you and your
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throne; I rejoice with profound joy at your downfall
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and that of your children..." Well, I would rather not mention the children.
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"...I behold with profound joy..." Well, nowadays that is
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considered extremist under the new
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legislation. Yes, and it does not fall under...
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The law on the protection of children's rights. Thank you.
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Thank you very much. Yes, I’m moving on to each of the
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candidates.
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And Dmitry, you basically gave
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me, so to speak, a pass. Tell me,
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please. Well, I understand that we are in favor of
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everyone being represented. Everyone
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has the right to delegate, to be
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represented, but is there really no
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personal ambition? Do you really not see yourself as
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someone in your own right, but rather as some kind of
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shadow of Tesak (nickname of Maxim Martsinkevich, a Russian far-right activist)? After all, if you’re elected,
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you’ll have to work. — Ah, no.
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You see, here’s the thing: we never
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took seriously the attempts to create
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a second party of crooks and thieves. We decided
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simply to test how the
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democratic liberal council
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of the opposition functions. And it turned out that the nationalists
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of Martsinkevich — National Socialists, I want to
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correct that — were unable to register
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me, while the democratic
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elections did register me. So now I’ve been registered,
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what next? Well, let’s see what
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comes next. We’ll make it through the debates, get into the
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Coordination Council, I hope.
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I hope our comrades, our
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friends, will vote for me, and after that we’ll work. We’ll see
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what we’re capable of together, yes or no.
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We’ll see.
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And Alexander Makshanov, please tell us:
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you were a member of the Yabloko party and made a
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truly phenomenal
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career there. That applies not only to you in
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this hall, but still — you even headed
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your, so to speak, Udmurt regional
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branch there, and then somehow Yabloko
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was no longer enough for you, and you created the Runet Party
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which, essentially — well, for now at least — is still
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a tiny party. Was this because of some kind of
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systemic disagreements, or do you simply
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think it’s better to be the big fish in a small pond?
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Absolutely not, I don’t think that
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at all. As for Yabloko, it’s a very simple situation.
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Yabloko is an excellent democratic school, but
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the time for school must come to an end, and
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a person has to move on. In this hall
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there are people whose situation with Yabloko was almost the same,
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and as we can see, they
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moved on to other work. And the same is true for me here.
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That is, I had already hit a ceiling where
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I no longer saw any room for growth for myself. And the
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ideas that I am now implementing in the Runet
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Party — I had those ideas back in Yabloko, and I brought them
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to Yavlinsky and Mitrokhin, but there was no understanding
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there.
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Thank you very much. Alexei, since we’re talking about
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the Yabloko party, I’ll have to remind you as well
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that it was part of your past, and there was also
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a project in
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Kirov, and you were close with Nikita Belykh
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the governor of the Kirov region, and in fact
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you already have a long political
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history by now, and you were connected
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with political analyst Stanislav
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Belkovsky, and so on and so forth. But you
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seem to outgrow everyone and somehow take no one
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with you — neither the Yabloko party nor your friends
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from it, nor any of the
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Kirov people — not the forest, so to speak (a reference to the Kirovles case),
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and so on. So how can we be
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sure that
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our current allies will not be
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cast aside by you further down the road? I took everyone
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with me. Every person I
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worked with in Yabloko, and Belykh, with whom we
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communicate less now — every person
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taught me something, and I carry that with me
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through life. It helps me tremendously.
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That is exactly why we are now holding elections to the
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Coordination Council: so that people can emerge
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who are able to grow independently,
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who, under pressure and in the absence of
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administrative resources, in the absence of
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access to the media, can still make themselves known and
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grow as much as they want — even higher than me.
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I will only be happy if there appear
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people who can
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compete with and defeat me or
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any other candidate. Be
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happy — you, you, and Dmitry Burashnikov
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as well. And I will address my question to Pavel
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Shelkov.
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You are involved in commissions investigating
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the events of May 6 and the investigation in Krymsk.
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So, as they say, you are conducting an investigation
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into the investigation — can we finally name
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who is to blame?
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Well, in one word, basically
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Putin. Because in both
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cases, this is essentially a product of that
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system of irresponsibility, when,
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for example, officials in Krymsk simply
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did not bother to warn people that
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they would be flooded and swept away that night.
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Likewise, an order was given to disperse
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a peaceful demonstration. I consider this
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a crime, and of course those responsible will
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sooner or later be punished and sent to
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prison, taking the place of those whom they are now
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trying to imprison despite their innocence. And I also
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believe that the main culprit is Putin. Well,
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yes, those are very interesting conclusions from the commission. And I
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I
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thank the participants in this round and their
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support groups, as well as
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the TV viewers. I remind everyone that
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you need to vote on the Central Election Committee website,
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202.org, for one candidate from this
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group of four and for one candidate from all the participants
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in tonight’s event. You can
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vote on the website tvrain.ru, and this
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voting is already underway. And among this group of four,
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Dmitry Burashnikov is currently in the lead. Thank you.
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[applause]