Alexei Navalny in Kostroma: Our Main Resource Is the Truth!

On Elections and Censorship: “The Authorities Are Terrified” — Alexei, all Kostroma media outlets were invited to your press conference, but only a small group showed up. Are you really that uninteresting as an interviewee? — You came, and that’s already wonderful. It’s a feature of a small region and of the budget system: Moscow takes all the money, the remainder is fully controlled by the regional authorities, and no local media can really survive here. I understand the situation perfectly well. The main thing is that I have something to say. — Your campaign in Kostroma began with a victory: for the first time in Russia, you were granted permission to put up billboards. Still, they didn’t last even one night. How did that story continue, and what conclusions did you draw from it? — The conclusion is that [the authorities] are terrified. They understand that United Russia has grabbed the entire Legislative Assembly, even though hardly anyone supports it: United Russia’s real share in all branches of government is completely disproportionate to the roughly 30% support it actually has. They understand that our slogans and issues will resonate, and they are terribly afraid of anything new. We put up four billboards. We even had a discussion: should we tweet that they’d gone up, or not? I put them up at 10 p.m., and in the morning I got a text saying the billboards had already been taken down. The same thing happened on the radio: the local Europa Plus and Retro FM put our ads into rotation, they ran for a day, and then they were pulled. But the interesting thing is that they approved them in the first place. In no other city did we get either billboards or radio ads — elsewhere they wouldn’t even take us from the start. That suggests the situation inside the Kostroma authorities is complicated, there’s no monolithic unity, and local business didn’t see anything criminal in it. But once they ran into the mayor’s office’s obvious position — “we’ll saw down your structures” — there was nothing they could do. We take this calmly, and it actually gives us hope. We’ll reach everyone with leaflets if we have to, and we’ll find our voter. — In Kostroma Region, only three people applied to take part in the Democratic Coalition primaries. What do you attribute such low numbers to? — We threw all our efforts into Novosibirsk, because the results there are about to be finalized, while in Kostroma everything will happen two to three weeks later, so there’s still time: there are three people on the website, and another two or three are still being moderated. I’m sure there will be enough candidates for there to be a real choice. What the top three will look like is the main political question that the people of Kostroma themselves must decide. — Why are people afraid? Or do they simply not trust you? What are you going to do about that? — We’ve run into the fact that they don’t believe in democracy. Many people think primaries are staged for show, and that everything has already been decided somewhere in Moscow. One of the purposes of my visit here is to prove that this is absolutely not the case. We genuinely do not know who will head the top three. These are real elections. People haven’t seen anything resembling fair elections since 1996, and it’s not easy to convince them, but we’ll keep breaking through that ice of distrust. — It was originally stated that the Democratic Coalition would not field federal “locomotives” in the regions, but the other day your ally Ilya Yashin said he was ready to head the list in the Kostroma regional Duma elections — even before the results of the regional primaries were announced. Do you consider such a system democratic? — Wherever the Democratic Coalition is running, there will be no Moscow “locomotives” — that is a matter of principle. Any Muscovites can only run through the primaries, and what Yashin meant was that he was ready to compete for the top spot. We have no candidates we are determined to push through no matter what. Everyone goes through the primaries. If Andreychenko wins, he heads the list, and Yashin comes second, or wherever he places. These are strict rules of the game. And we are convinced that the list should be formed only through primaries like these. — In the last State Duma elections, nearly 5,000 absentee certificates “drowned” at the Kostroma election commission. Mr. Dolgy, under whose watch the so-called “utility accident” allegedly destroyed the documents, has still not been punished in any way and has even gone on to head the city election commission. How do you hope to get the required 2,800 signatures verified for registration in the presence of people like that? — We intend to collect them in a completely public way. They’ll be gathered by committed people, though it will be paid work. Once we’ve collected them, we’ll invite all of you to come and look at them. A handwriting expert will examine them publicly at campaign headquarters. We’ll send copies of the signatures to Moscow, where another handwriting expert will examine them in front of journalists. We’ll force all those crooks from United Russia to come and look at these signatures too, so everyone can be convinced they’re genuine. We understand perfectly well that they don’t want to let us onto the ballot. But we’ll do everything possible. In Kostroma Region, the history of election fraud is far less striking than in Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, or Mordovia: after all, the lowest vote for Putin and the second-lowest vote for United Russia speak for themselves. — Your critics say that this “march into the regions” is merely a “springboard” for future State Duma elections. Is there a risk that, once elected to regional parliaments, your supporters will leave a year later for the soft seats in the building on Okhotny Ryad (the street where the State Duma is located)? — I think there should be primaries there as well. It’s entirely possible that someone elected now, trying to move on to Okhotny Ryad, won’t get support in the primaries. People may tell him: “My friend, is this what you ran for? Then stay here!” That question should be decided by the voters. “A Tank Doesn’t Take Down Billboards at Night!” — Because of your convictions, even though they were suspended sentences, you currently cannot run for deputy yourself? How long will this situation last, and have you retained your political ambitions despite the persecution? — I really am barred from taking part in elections — I don’t even remember until what year in the 2000s — but I’m sure this won’t last long. And I think I’ll be able to take part in elections again, perhaps even before this term is over. It depends on the broader political situation. — Igor Guberman wrote many true-to-life lines that are hard to disagree with. “On my own back and others’ I learned one simple notion: it’s pointless to go at a tank with a knife, but if you really want to, it’s worth it.” What makes you “throw yourself at a tank” when you already know the weight classes are unequal? — There is no tank. It’s a cardboard tank — some kind of phantom structure. From Kostroma Region, that’s much more obvious than in many other regions. Support for them is low here. We see a region where the basic infrastructure has been destroyed. There are towns here — Sharya, I think — where there’s been no hot water for five months. What kind of tank is that? We’re not lying in a single word, and we find support. Once we reach a person, there are no tanks. The issues of fighting corruption and keeping money from being siphoned off to Moscow are obvious; 90% of the region’s residents support them. The corrupt gang that seized power controls the security apparatus and can crush any individual person, throw them in jail. But overall, the structure is weak. Otherwise why would they be taking down billboards? A tank doesn’t take down billboards at night. I mean, what is it — some guy came, let him get his 1.5% and leave. But they steal billboards in the middle of the night — that shows they are nowhere near confident in their own strength. — How large is your support? — Our main campaign themes are: powers and money back to the regions, fighting corruption, direct elections for mayors and governors, regular turnover of power, no censorship, and freedom for the media. On every one of our key program points, more than half of voters support us. That’s simply a fact. It’s not easy for us to get that across, because an agenda is imposed on us — Crimea, for example. But in Kostroma Region, nobody cares about Donbas against the backdrop of these roads, when driving down Mira Avenue feels like riding a roller coaster. We’re confident we’ll find our voter, and that there will be enough votes. — Despite the charges brought against you, judges have never once dared to give you a real prison term. Why? — They did dare once, and I was released the next day. I connect that with what I saw with my own eyes: people came out into the streets in Moscow. They realized that the political cost of jailing me was a bit higher than they had expected, so they let me go. — What do you consider your main resource and your main advantage? — The fact that we tell the truth. The truth, our program, and our ideas — that’s our super-resource. It matters far more than money and television. — Looking at how your wife supports you, one can’t help thinking of the wives of the Decembrists (the Russian noblemen who led the failed 1825 uprising, whose wives famously followed them into exile). Have you ever wanted to drop everything and leave, to shield your family from trouble? — My wife and my family have always supported me and still do. On the contrary, my wife tells me: “Come on, what are you sitting around for?” It’s impossible for an opposition politician in Russia to do anything if the family doesn’t support him. — Many educated people left Russia after Bolotnaya (the 2011–2012 anti-government protest movement centered on Moscow’s Bolotnaya Square). What stopped you? — I always want to shield and protect people, but that doesn’t mean leaving the country. I don’t condemn those who left after facing some kind of danger. But for me, leaving Russia would be capitulation. Why should I leave? Let them leave. Let all those who destroyed the roads in Kostroma Region and never repaired them — let them be the ones to go abroad. In the Moscow elections, in Russia’s largest city, 30% of voters cast their ballots for me. So I’m not going anywhere. — When your brother was sent to prison, some media outlets ran headlines like “brother for brother.” How often do you speak with Oleg and his family, and how are they living now? — I visited him for a short visit and a long visit, we exchange letters, and he calls me regularly. It’s a hard situation for me and for my family. Everyone understands that he is a hostage, taken in order to get revenge on me. But Oleg himself also says that we must not stop, and that it is right to keep fighting for truth and justice in our country. “Gubernatorial Elections Are a Fiction” — If your convictions were lifted right now and you were offered the chance to run for governor, would you refuse? — Executive and legislative power are slightly different things. In the executive branch, “negative selection” is at work. An elected office is one thing. But when you are appointed governor or minister, even if you are a good person, in practice you are forced to engage in daily corruption simply in order to perform your official duties. Even if you don’t take anything for yourself, you’ll still be drawn into schemes every day: to keep a ministry functioning, you’ll be forced to sign questionable orders on a daily basis. — Then why not field your own candidate in the Kostroma gubernatorial election? — Gubernatorial elections in Russia are a fiction. The municipal filter is impossible to get through. When governors all over the country resign right before elections, the whole of Russia is already sick of it. — When caricatures of the mayor appeared around potholes on the streets of Kostroma, as they had in Yekaterinburg and Ryazan, people supporting the campaign said there should be a “bad roads map” modeled on RosYama. Does this “appropriation of the brand” offend you? — Not at all. That’s exactly why we created RosYama — so absolutely everyone could use it. Tens of thousands of potholes have been repaired. But I’m afraid that in Kostroma it’s impossible! I was driving along and looking at Mira Avenue: where could you even draw a portrait here? There’s no room for a portrait, because it’s pothole after pothole after pothole. Your road budget is 980 million rubles, and that’s only for patching potholes. In principle, the region simply doesn’t have the money to bring the roads into anything like decent condition. All your road tenders are won by state-owned enterprises. Improving the condition of the roads has nothing to do with portraits or with using RosYama. It has to do with returning 40% of VAT, so that the region would receive an additional 8 billion rubles. Then the road fund could be increased three- or fourfold. The money you earn yourselves really needs to be given back to you so the city can develop. — In Kostroma Region, 154 million rubles were stolen during construction of a seed-breeding center in Sharya under Slyunyaev, but the criminal case ended in an amnesty. The governor has changed, three years have passed, and the center still hasn’t been completed. What do you propose doing about stories like this? — This is one example of why we are going into these elections. Everyone knows that 154 million rubles were stolen, nothing has been built to this day, and everyone just throws up their hands. But that is a huge amount of money for a region with a population of 600,000! They steal openly and walk away unpunished. We are running in order to fight corruption. Our deputies will be watchdogs over the budget. There need to be deputies who won’t let this go, who will keep hammering away at it at least through parliamentary inquiries. We had the example of the late Borya Nemtsov in Yaroslavl on oncology, when funding for medicines finally started being allocated. There need to be several deputies who make this their issue. — What is your view of the wave of municipal water utilities being handed over to private operators? The practice of concession agreements is spreading from city to city and seems likely to cover all regions soon. At the same time, such projects are often drafted and pushed through by the authorities in the interests of Rosvodokanal, part of Alfa Group, where your associate Ashurkov once worked. — Don’t forget that he was fired because of his ties to me. There is a problem across the whole country — the problem of monopolization in general. Housing and communal services are once again turning into a super-monopoly; you can see it even in the case of property management companies. — In Kostroma, a regional Duma deputy responsible for environmental issues did not prevent his father’s company from obtaining the territory of Shagovsky Pond in central Kostroma for development. — Yes, I know that situation. — What can you set against stories like that now, and what would change if you make it into the regional Duma? — First, publicity. Second, investigations. As deputies, we will stand up at every session and demand: “We will support nothing and we will obstruct you until you begin investigating this situation.” The conflict of interest is obvious. But were there any parliamentary inquiries? Is anyone dealing with this at all besides civic activists and a small number of media outlets? There need to be deputies — official figures — who will keep filing inquiries and crime reports. Right now, they don’t exist. The Legislative Assembly is large, but there are no people there who will do the most basic thing — simply raise a scandal around this. They need to appear.