Alexei Navalny on the program "Special Opinion" from December 27, 2017

Hello. Alexei Solomin is in the studio.

And our guest today is politician Alexei

Navalny, a presidential candidate not registered by the Central Election Commission (CEC).

presidential candidate.

>> Good evening.

>> Does the announcement of this action, or

voters' strike, mean that you are

stopping your attempts to get registered?

>> Well, we are proceeding from the assumption that the Kremlin

has made its final decision.

Of course, we will pursue every

legal avenue; we will challenge it in court.

We also, of course, do not rule out the possibility

that the Kremlin, as part of some kind of

cunning, Jesuitical strategy, might—I don't

know—register me two weeks

before the election and say, "All right, go ahead,

run your campaign; we're ready

for that scenario." But that is still

something rather exotic, on the

political periphery. Judging by

the way the election commission proceeded,

how uncompromisingly they repeated all

these utterly illegal, absurd

things, we understand that the Kremlin has decided

to make this campaign completely

non-competitive. It is afraid of me because

it fears that I will be able to rely on

the majority of voters. And because of that

we have declared a strike and will now

carry out all these actions within the framework of

the strike as our primary and

priority steps.

>> So there will be a court appeal in parallel, but there will not

be any attempt, or an attempt

to put forward, for example, an alternative

candidate on your behalf.

>> Well, after all, we are engaged in real

politics and real elections.

Real elections mean that

a candidate runs; I ran. I honestly conducted

an election campaign for a year. I

believe I gained broad support.

I repeat: I believe I can

count on the majority of voters,

because I traveled across the entire country. I

truly believe that we could have

won this election, and engaging in

some kind of game, swapping candidates,

or resorting to political-technological

tricks does not interest us. And it is

also counterproductive. Because this is politics,

this is an election. In an election there should be

a real candidate. Why do I consider

all the other candidates, even without

going into the details of their platforms or

beliefs, not to be real? Because they

did not fight for voters' support.

That is the only way to win an election.

In general, it only makes sense to run if you are

going to fight for votes. I have fought for those votes

and I am still fighting for them. And I can see that, by and large,

I am doing this alone. Everyone

else is basically doing nothing.

And, well, swapping candidates or doing

something else like that is not politics.

It is an attempt to outsmart

the Kremlin on the very field where it

controls absolutely everything. That simply

makes no sense whatsoever.

>> Throughout your entire political career

you have been trying to outsmart the Kremlin, using different

strategies to do so. At times

supporting another candidate, at times

calling for a full boycott, and now

you are focused on a boycott. Meanwhile,

many experts—some experts,

Andrei Movchan, for example—I was preparing, and

he suggested, or rather asks

you: "Why not put forward your

wife?" Everyone would understand that those would be

votes for Alexei Navalny, and for no one

would that be either a deception or

a secret.

>> Well, first of all, if you want to read

real experts, then you really should

read actual experts. Read what

Grigory Golosov writes. I mean real,

genuine political scientists who can

speak as political scientists. In

politics, as we know, everyone is an expert,

and so anyone can give

their own useful advice. But here is the thing:

you are completely wrong

when you say that throughout my

political activity I have been trying

to outsmart anyone by using different strategies.

We use different strategies because

the Kremlin develops mechanisms to fight

against our strategies. In 2011

I called on everyone to vote for any

party against United Russia.

Over the following six years, the Kremlin primarily

built defensive mechanisms

against that strategy. They arranged things so that

now you simply cannot vote for another

candidate against Putin.

In any case, you will be

voting for Putin, because they have

put forward completely unreal

candidates who do nothing.

So everything I have done is not

a trick. It is, on the contrary, grounded in—if you like—

a moral and ethical position.

We do what a decent person is supposed to do,

but we change

our strategy based on what the Kremlin has come up with.

As for nominating Yulia or

someone else—well, that too is just

you know, political technology. So, say,

we nominate Yulia, and they do not

register her. I nominate Dasha Navalnaya,

they do not register her either. I then say

I am nominating Zakhar Navalny,

a ten-year-old. They open criminal cases

against him and do not allow

him to run. Then I nominate Alexei Solomin from

Echo of Moscow (a Russian radio station), and so on and so forth. And

Even Alexei Venediktov, who is running in

next, they are not registering either. This is

a pointless race.

>> And what makes you think that?

>> And

>> that they would not register Yulia Navalnaya, who

does not have, does not have any criminal

conviction. Fair or unfair,

right or wrong, it does not matter. She does not have it,

they do not have that additional box to tick.

>> Tens of millions of people in our

country have no criminal conviction at all.

To endlessly

shuffle through candidates,

changing things on the fly, is just

nonsense. I insist that

it is possible to defeat this government in an election

by honestly running a normal election

campaign. I have seen it with my own

eyes. When you are not wasting time on

nonsense, but go to any city and

as is proper in an election

campaign, first put out a video: "Guys,

come to the meeting." People come

to the meeting. You talk to them,

you campaign for their support. You gain

support. And that support

from voters, once you earn it, with it

you can win. But all these

contrived schemes exist only on

Facebook, in some people's heads, but

they have nothing to do with

reality. And I, and my штаб (campaign team), and I am sure

that all those tens of thousands of volunteers

who support the campaign, they

joined this campaign because it was

honest politics, without any cheating

or manipulation. And I am not going to

abandon this line of honest politics for

some kind of schemes and shady maneuvering.

>> May I ask, have you discussed such a possibility

with Yulia at all? Was there

any conversation between you about it?

>> Well, different people keep writing about this all the time.

They love discussing it on Echo of Moscow (a Russian radio station),

so, well, Yulia and I regularly read

about it in the news. You cannot really get away

from it anywhere. We love the radio station Echo of Moscow.

We read it, laugh, and think what a great

radio station it is, and what nonsense they

say on air.

>> So you think, together with your wife, and your wife

also considers this option nonsense?

>> Naturally, my wife considers it

nonsense, because she is

not only my wife, she is also

a citizen of Russia. She is

someone who, well, also

supports this election campaign

as a normal, honest election

campaign, for which any kind of candidate

substitution and other strange things are

simply unacceptable.

>> But for many people, this looks like a kind of

egocentrism — not really a struggle for

an honest way to win an election, but rather

the exclusion of any option other than

your own candidacy.

>> Well, that is not true, of course, and I am sure

that right now you have simply come up with something

just to make the question sharper.

This is a far-fetched

construct. People believe that

a presidential election is about choosing

a specific person who declares

that, "I want to be president,

support me." That is exactly what I declared

more than a year ago. And with that idea I

traveled around the country, published a platform,

and fought for votes. That is what is called

a presidential campaign. It is about one

person around whom many others

unite. And the interests of all those many

are represented by one person.

>> Will there be an appeal to the Constitutional Court

regarding, uh, well, regarding

the conviction that is preventing you from running?

>> Of course, the law is entirely on our

side, and I was very disappointed that

the Central Election Commission

was simply lying to everyone, saying

that the Constitutional Court had already

considered this issue. It had not.

The Constitutional Court considered this

provision on barring convicted persons,

as applied to elections to the State

Duma (the lower house of Russia's parliament), which are governed by an entirely different

law. Presidential elections are governed by

a special law. We will, of course,

appeal to the Supreme Court, to the

Constitutional Court, everywhere. But let us not

deceive ourselves. We understand that

this will lead nowhere. We will do it

simply in order to show, once again, to ourselves

and to everyone else, that we

are conducting an honest campaign. If we

understand that we are right, we will go to

court even if defeat is a foregone conclusion.

>> And on what timeline will that happen before,

well, the election itself?

>> How long? Well, of course it will be before

the election, naturally.

>> Mm-hmm. And you have scheduled a major protest action

for the 28th, which

is called a voters' strike.

Am I right in understanding that this is not

a one-time action, but an entire process —

a voters' strike?

>> A voters' strike is an entire

process. That is precisely why we call it

a voters' strike rather than a boycott.

And we intend to make this voters' strike

a more important, more significant

political process than the election

itself. They are not really elections,

they are a reappointment, where,

essentially, no one is doing

anything at all. You saw it — Putin did not show up

even to nominate their own candidate.

The other candidates are also, well, somewhere

out there somewhere; no one understands

where. We are going to use this, this our

huge network structure that we

have built across the country to

persuade Russian citizens not to

go to the polls, to actively

boycott them, uh, to make sure that

as few people as possible show up and

to monitor every polling station to see how many

people came, so as not to let

the authorities falsify turnout. And that is exactly

what they intend to do, because

judging by what we are seeing, uh,

their only concern is turnout. They

understand that victory is already in the bag for them,

"victory," in quotation marks,

turnout is the only thing they care about.

>> We’re going to take a short break now. In

the Echo of Moscow studio is Alexei Navalny. This

is the program *Special Opinion*. Today it is hosted by

me, Alexei Solomin. Don’t go away.

We’ll be back in 2 minutes. Once again in

the studio, Alexei Solomin. We continue

the program. Our guest is politician

Alexei Navalny. We started talking

about the voters’ strike, explaining how

it differs from a boycott. I wanted

to ask you specifically about the protest action

that is planned for

the 28th. And what is its

practical purpose? So people will come out into

the streets in the Epiphany frosts (the traditional severe cold around the Orthodox Epiphany in January), thousands

of people — and then what?

>> Mobilizing people, demonstrating

what they consider important. And what is the point

of any protest action, really? What

is the point of elections and taking part in elections? Well,

you either want to win, or you want

to gather people around you and

show the authorities something. Parliamentary

parties, or any parties that

take part in parliamentary elections, they

do not necessarily get 100% of the vote or

a majority, but they want to show that

this or that part of society stands behind us.

That is exactly what we are doing within the voters’ strike in general and within

the January 28 action, and today we

published a list of groups. I urge

all readers to go either to my

video blog or just my blog, find their

city, and sign up for that group. The goal

is exactly that: to demonstrate to this

government that we do, in fact, exist.

Quite significantly, there are Russian citizens here

who are not represented in these

elections, in these elections. And they are

deeply dissatisfied and upset by this,

because de facto the Kremlin, of course,

has excluded tens of

millions of people from the political system, first and foremost,

residents of large cities, of course, because

they were simply told: "Well, you do not have

the right to nominate your own candidate at all,

and you are of no interest to us." And overall this

is the kind of thing — it’s not about me, as I said

today in the video, it’s not about me, it’s about

the authorities’ fundamental position that

they will exclude from the political

process everyone who engages in real

political struggle and relies on, well,

a grassroots political movement. This

is the most important thing. It means that they, in

principle, never want to let us

in anywhere. And there will only be these

puppet parties, puppet

politicians. And all our lives we will

sit around and worry. My God, why is it that

our, uh, parties, which do nothing,

get 2%? We suffer,

blame ourselves, blame the Russian people. And,

it’s some kind of endless

vicious circle. It is fairly easy

to break out of it. You just need to run real

election campaigns. And that is exactly the kind of movement

they are very afraid of.

>> Why have you decided that the Kremlin does not know

anything about how many

supporters you have? There are FSO polls (Russia’s Federal Protective Service),

some unofficial polls. And the fact that

President Putin does not say your

surname does not mean at all that he

has no idea about you.

>> On the contrary, uh, I am saying exactly the opposite,

they know everything very well, and I do not believe

in any FSB polls (Russia’s Federal Security Service) — that is complete nonsense,

but they can see how we are running the election

campaign. They understand that our

structure is real and that it exists there in

every major city in Russia. They see

that the volunteers are real. The election

campaign is completely real when

a person comes to some city and, uh,

all students, all state employees are

told: "Under threat of dismissal: do not

come to his meeting." And still

a substantial number of people come,

in any case more than they can

gather themselves. Of course, they know this, and

it frightens them greatly, and they realize

that when the formal

election campaign begins and, uh,

people are told, look,

here are five names, choose one of them, they

understand that with the help of our network we

will be able to persuade the majority of

Russian citizens to choose my name. And that is why

they did not let me in. They know everything, I assure

you. In fact, they watch us more closely

than anyone else, because all

the others are, are

some kind of political phantoms that

they themselves created.

>> The November 28 action should come to an end. The 28th of

November

>> January.

>> My apologies,

>> 28. The January 28 rally should begin,

and end. I hope it will be

large-scale, and I believe it should

not be the only one. Well, we'll see. This is a major

political process that we are

organizing, but no one has yet

managed to ask a question about it.

>> Go ahead.

>> Or are you asking about a prolonged

street protest that is, well,

open-ended, so to speak? Remember, we've had

different examples of that, like Occupy

Abai (a Moscow protest camp inspired by Occupy Wall Street), a kind of permanent act of

civil disobedience.

>> As of today, the plan for the January 28 action

in the largest cities across

Russia already covers 83 cities. It will be

a march and a rally. As of now,

we are not talking about any open-ended

actions, but I think that before these elections

we will hold more than one protest. We will simply

act according to the situation. It's impossible

for me, by sheer wish or decree, or because of this

wonderful interview on Echo of Moscow (a Russian radio station)

to just say: "Let the protest be

open-ended." People themselves will not leave

if they feel that they should not

leave the streets.

>> Are you setting that as a goal

>> at this point? No, that is not the goal

right now. At this point, what matters is

to demonstrate the scale of these protests precisely

during this difficult period of Epiphany frosts

(the traditional severe cold spell around the Orthodox Epiphany), as you rightly pointed out.

>> And what turnout percentage? As I understand it,

all the work right now is focused

on lowering turnout in this election. Your

work, that is. What percentage would be

satisfactory to you?

>> We are not setting any specific target.

It's not about the numbers. There is no turnout threshold

in our system. And it's not as though

we can simply drive it down. Well, I mean, it matters that

it be below 50%.

But in essence, we will be fighting

the falsification of turnout. We understand perfectly well.

And what will matter is how effectively

we are able to fight this

turnout fraud. But the legitimacy

of the authorities is not measured in numbers. I mean,

it's not like they got 70 and therefore

they are legitimate, or they got 49 and therefore

they are illegitimate. It's a feeling, it's

people's conviction. We want to show

people how ridiculous, absurd, and

rigged these elections will be. And that will have

major long-term consequences. After all,

we are looking at the bigger picture. This is our

country. You and I are not planning

to leave it, right?

>> Well, not for now.

>> Excellent. Me neither, for now. So that means you and I

will stay and keep fighting. And what

will happen as part of our voters' strike

is an important element of the current struggle

and a precondition for the future one.

>> Well, you'll be the one fighting — you're the fighter. I'm

not much of a fighter myself, but

that doesn't matter. We

>> we'll persuade you to fight, and you'll be a wonderful,

excellent fighter.

>> Alexei, why do you think that for

the Kremlin, this high turnout is such an

important matter?

>> It's not what I think — it's a fact.

Look, everything they are doing right now

is about turnout. Patriarch Kirill

today urged people to go vote. I

published documents from the Moscow

Region, but we know that similar ones

have been sent out

across the country saying that there will be

special groups created, "hundreders" (local turnout coordinators),

brigades, whose job is to ensure 100%

of voters turn out and are brought to

the polling stations — magnets, little gifts,

assigned people for each apartment entrance, and so

on and so forth. Yesterday, Peskov said

that our calls for a strike

should be examined by law enforcement

agencies. We can see it simply from the facts:

they are absolutely obsessed with their turnout.

>> Turnout in presidential elections

in which Vladimir Putin took part

has always been roughly, well, above 60 and below

70 percent. It has always been fairly high.

Why, on what grounds, did you

come to believe that this time it would be

different?

Where did that feeling come from?

What is it based on? I got that feeling

after the meeting of the Central

Election Commission, where they told me — and through me,

hundreds of thousands of people, indeed

millions of people, I can say that confidently —

they said: "Sorry, you don't have the right face

to take part in our

elections." And all those people, and the people before them

who said that they would not let us

into the election, and Putin,

who stated outright back in

2013 that if Navalny posed a danger,

he would not be allowed to run in the election,

and now they are not allowing it. All of this

convinces me that

the system is absolutely unjust. And I am not the only one who sees

this injustice. Everyone

sees it. And of course, people simply will not go

to an election like that. And, well, all of this

will turn into a complete farce and absurdity.

Besides, we also need to understand that

Vladimir Putin has taken part in elections several times,

but now he is taking part for the

fifth time. He has been in power for 17 years

and wants another 6 years.

People grow up, new

voters appear, some people develop

fatigue. Overall, the degradation of this

the authorities and their inability to do anything

normal, but it has a very strong impact.

Four years of declining real incomes

among the population is the single most important factor. Every

person—any person in the country—knows

that their income has been falling for four years in a row. And

it is obvious that the authorities, well, at the very least,

bear responsibility for that. Ksenia

Sobchak offered to make you her authorized representative

and many people, quite rightly,

in my view, criticize you for ignoring

that offer, because you would have

received a very good platform on

federal television to express any of your

views.

>> Well, the idea that I would get some kind of platform on federal

channels cannot

provoke anything but a smile. And it seems to me

that nothing but a smile can be provoked by

the whole idea of these authorized representatives and

so on. Of course, I am following what

the other candidates are doing. Sobchak, and

Grudinin, and Titov, and Yavlinsky, and all

of them, in one way or another, uh, are trying to

naturally, in their logic,

attract the electorate that would have voted

for me, to attract my voters.

But I do not think they will succeed

for one simple reason. Regardless

of what they are doing

now, if they had started their

election campaign a year ago and conducted it

honestly, and had actually fought for

voters' support, then this could

have been discussed. It could have been

discussed. Right now, this is not politics. They

are not politicians, they are not

just some strange people who

and in Sobchak’s case, two months

ago, and in Grudinin’s case, a week

ago, did not even know themselves that they were running in

the election. Suddenly they popped up

over the last three months and started doing

something. This is not an election

campaign. These people, in principle, cannot

get many votes. More than that, they

openly say that they are participating not

in order to win. None of this

interests me, and I would like

to focus on the real

political process, not on some

well, things that are also put forward

just so people can discuss them on Facebook.

And

>> We are going to take

a break here and continue right after the news

and commercials. Alexei Navalny. In the Echo of

Moscow (independent Russian radio station) studio, Alexei Solomin is hosting

today’s broadcast. Stay with us.

The program "Special Opinion" continues.

Hello, my name is Alexei

Solomin. For those who have just

joined us, let me say that here in the studio we have

politician Alexei Navalny, and we began

a very interesting conversation about Ksenia

Sobchak. It seems to me,

>> Not interesting at all. Let us talk a little more

about Ksenia Sobchak, and then

move on to some more real

political issues. Uh, one can clearly

feel in your, uh, in your emotions

right now some very negative

attitude toward her?

>> No, no, it is not a negative

attitude at all. I have a negative

attitude toward all candidates who

call themselves candidates, but they are running

an election campaign. Certainly, I

can say that they provoke my

irritation, all of them,

>> because I, well, as I have said many times already,

I spent a year traveling around the country, for a year

I was speaking, I went all over the country, and my

irritation kept building up because

I looked at all the other

candidates—in fact, I did not see

any candidates at all. Then they seemed

to announce that they were running in the election, and

still they were doing nothing. And I

understood that there was always the risk

that I would not be allowed onto the ballot. And

I would have liked some

candidates to emerge who would fight for

voters’ support so that there could be

some alternative other than a boycott and

a voters’ strike. Of course, that

would have been preferable. Taking part in

elections is always better than not taking part

in elections. But I simply see a bunch of people

who make all sorts of declarations, who declare

that they are candidates, but do not take

a single step to fight

for votes. And of course, these candidates

irritate me. I am not even

going to hide it.

>> You rightly said that Ksenia

Sobchak said she was not planning

to win this election, but everything

she is doing now reminds the country

that you exist. She asks your

question at Vladimir

Putin’s press conference. She says your brother’s name

on Vladimir

Solovyov’s TV show. Do you really feel no

gratitude? That is very nice, of course,

of course, but it probably would have been more

appropriate to do the same over

the last four years, or at least over

the last year. But an election

campaign does not exist

to remind the country of my name.

An election campaign exists

to fight for votes. Therefore,

Ksenia Sobchak should not keep talking about

Navalny endlessly, but should go to the city of

Novosibirsk. Call a rally there and

speak to the residents of the city of

Novosibirsk, and then in the evening from there

fly out and speak the very next day in

the city of Perm or in his hometown of

St. Petersburg, because that is exactly

what an election campaign is.

>> Real politics. Exactly. And why

are you concerned about the other

candidates? The other candidates are

helping you run your election

campaign.

>> Alexei, you've hit the nail right on the head, just as I

told you. Why are you worried, and as for

the other candidates, I want to say that I

am not concerned about them at all and would

prefer not to discuss them even now. Well, if

you ask, of course I’ll answer. But

they are not real candidates. They may

be pleasant people or unpleasant people,

but they are not genuine

candidates, so what is there

to discuss?

>> Your goal is not to trample your

opposition rivals. Your goal is

to replace Vladimir Putin in office.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But if someone comes along—let’s say, well,

right now I’d like to discuss Ksenia Sobchak with you—

any candidate who, uh,

who says your name and is not

ashamed of it, if after coming to

power, after winning the election, including with

your support, uh, talks about dissolving

the State Duma (the lower house of Russia’s parliament)—I’ll stop you

right there. When you say “win the

election,” you should just pause and

stop there, because first of all, they

say they are not even planning to win

the election, and second, they are not even

trying to fight for voters’ support.

So your whole argument has already

fallen apart, because they are doing

nothing. Well, absolutely. Listen, if there were

any candidate at all, even one who might not be

particularly likable to me or close to me in terms of

policy, who alongside me

was really fighting, traveling around, maybe

criticizing me, debating me,

but genuinely competing for

voters’ support—I would say right now: "You

know, folks, I wasn’t allowed onto the ballot,

but of course, for the sake of the common cause,

I want to support this candidate, because

this is a real candidate running against

Putin."

program.

Or even if I agree with that program 0%. Let’s vote for

him or her, because this is a vote against

Putin. If you can give me the name of

such a candidate, let me endorse them right now

live on Echo of Moscow. But I’m

afraid you can’t tell me

anything. You see, you’re smiling, but

this is no joke. This is real.

The next election will be in 6 years. For 6

years, the people of Russia, Russian citizens,

will have to wait until the next

presidential election. It’s a catastrophe.

>> It seems to me that most people have already

more or less accepted that. As soon as

Vladimir Putin announced his

candidacy, everyone immediately started talking about

2024.

>> Well, that means I have not accepted it, and I am gathering

around me all those who have not accepted it

either.

>> Is that a naive position?

>> No, absolutely not. How could it

be a naive position? Because we are

dealing here with things that

are not naive at all. I

have one life, and I will spend it

in Russia. I want to influence

this election here and now. And everyone else

understands very well that another 6 years

of Putin means a continuation of the last

4 years. That means the country becoming more closed off,

the country falling behind, its economy growing

more slowly than the global economy. We

will keep falling behind, and falling behind, and falling behind.

Our rockets will keep crashing, and nothing here

will develop. It is

monstrous. So this is not at all

romantic. Why is it that, as far as I

have followed you—I follow you closely—

you have one scenario in which

Putin gets immunity if he

ensures a peaceful transfer of power? Is that

correct? Is that still your position,

right?

>> People are asking you a fair question, including

your own supporters. Why exactly

should Putin receive immunity if he is

the architect of this system and the person

who bears direct

responsibility for it?

>> The decision to grant Putin immunity is

a painful, unpleasant decision, one that

I find unpleasant too, just like everyone

else. Probably even more

unpleasant for me than for everyone else, because

I have many personal reasons, including

reasons not to like Putin. My brother

is in prison right now, even though there is

a ruling by the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), which

states that the case was fabricated. He

is still in prison under strict

conditions. But we must

act in the interests of the country as a whole,

including by making such

unpleasant decisions. And if this would be

a guarantee of a peaceful transition for all 145

million people, then immunity can be granted even

to Putin—but only to Putin himself, without

any Medvedevs or anyone else. But,

I would also like to return to your

remark. When you said that this is

some kind of romantic point of view, while this

is a practical point of view—when I

say that we are fighting for our country and

their own future—of course, that sounds like a

grand phrase, but it definitely is not

something romantic. It is

the very essence of political practice.

There can be no more practical position

right now than precisely

this kind of attitude. That is what is at stake. And

that is why our actions during

the strike, during the January 28 protest,

and going forward, all of this is a struggle for our country

and our future. Before we know it,

how old are you?

>> Thirty.

>> Thirty. You will only be able to vote again at age 36.

And then

someone else will be put forward for

the presidency next time. Ksenia

Sobchak—I hope you will not do it

the way Ksenia Sobchak did, but will start

running your campaign a year in advance and

will stand out very favorably compared with her

as a candidate. So this is not at all

a romantic position. It is simply the

only possible political

practice,

>> a practical position. But you can

continue fighting to take part in other

elections. There will be an election for

Moscow mayor in September. You had an excellent result

before—almost 30 percent, which is very good for

Moscow. Aren’t you thinking of

trying again yourself? Well, from the standpoint of

the current authorities, I do not have the right

to stand for election. Even in those

papers of theirs, it says

something like the year 2030—I’m not even sure anymore,

I’ve gotten confused myself. In other words, for a very, very long time.

You will grow older than I am now, and I will still

be banned from taking part in

elections. So, basically, they have

shut off participation in politics for me and for all those people

whom I represent.

Let’s put it this way: they are trying—they are not letting me

onto the ballot. My political

party, the Progress Party, we tried

to register it four times, and every time

we were refused.

>> And you have stopped trying? You are no longer

going to do that? Well, we—we

work on this constantly. It is a

never-ending, permanent process.

An attempt to gain political

representation one way or another,

including through a party. Since you yourself

will not be taking part in the Moscow mayoral

election, which candidate would you

support, for example? Dmitry

Gudkov, Sergei Sobyanin, Ilya Yashin,

Sergei Metrov, the spirit of Alexei Alexeyevich

Venediktov, which has appeared above this

table and is hovering there, sort of

smiling, rubbing its hands, and saying:

"What a tricky question." So, I can

say to you, Alexei Alexeyevich, and

to everyone who is very concerned about,

the Moscow mayoral election, that you are doing a very

good thing by being concerned. It is

the election of the mayor of the country’s largest city,

the most populous federal subject.

But I am not thinking about it at all, and I do not think

that now is the time for us to be thinking about it.

What would I like the candidates

to do? The same thing: that they

start doing real,

practical work now. Because once again

we will see the same thing: a month before the election,

some people will pop up and say to us:

"Oh, support us or don’t support us,

but at least take some kind of position toward us,

I’ll come here to you and you will

question me again." And whether it is,

I don’t know, Ksenia Sobchak again or Katya Gordon

or anyone else at all—anyone. You will

ask me about it with a sly

smile. And I will have to answer. I,

of course, will answer, but right now, from the standpoint of

December 2017, I am addressing all possible

candidates with one appeal:

"Guys, do some actual work." But I

am not thinking now about the Moscow mayoral election,

because other issues are on

the agenda.

>> Well, would you like there to be a single

opposition candidate or not?

>> Well, of course, I would like there to be

a united candidate who would defeat

Sobyanin, who has thoroughly worn everyone out

and who is one of the most

corrupt regional leaders

in Russia. He is a constant subject of our

investigations and of all sorts of other

investigations. By now, the sheer volume of

evidence is unimaginable—it shows that this

Moscow government is corrupt

and is simply not coping with its

own responsibilities. Therefore,

of course, I would like there to be

one single united candidate who

would win, who would get more

votes than I did in my time and would win in

the first or second round. Of course,

any reasonable person would want that.

And to settle this question, I have always

personally been curious: do you consider

Alexei Navalny

>> Dmitry Gudkov a Kremlin stooge?

>> A Kremlin stooge. Well no, of course not,

I do not consider Dmitry Gudkov a Kremlin

stooge. I have known him for many years.

But tell me, please, let us then

understand this term you are using: who is a

Kremlin “Murzilka” (a puppet-like propaganda figure)? Tell me

what are the signs of a Kremlin “Murzilka”?

>> A person who works with the mayor’s office, including

against you.

Works with the mayor’s office against me. Works with

the Kremlin against me. Ah, well, I

have known Dmitry Gudkov for many years. I think,

that he, of course, interacts with

various

people, including officials. There is nothing

wrong with that in itself, as long as you are not

acting against the opposition. But I

hope that is not the case.

>> And when your supporters attack Dmitry

Gudkov and call him nothing other than

a Kremlin stooge, do you support

that, or

>> I support freedom of speech. Different

people can

call me all sorts of names. Many

people, in fact, do call me

a Kremlin project, as you know. And

in this very studio I have answered

the question about 30 times: what would you say to those who call

you a Kremlin project? And I urge

everyone to judge by actions and by specific

statements. You have to look at what a person

does: if a person acts properly, if

they act in the common interest, then they are

doing well. If they act against the common

interest, then they are not. Or they have already

reached the stage of what you call

a Kremlin stooge.

>> And what matters more to you, WWK asks,

very little time for an answer: your personal

political career or democratic

reforms in Russia?

>> What matters to me is my life in my country.

I would like to live in a normal

democratic country. I am making my own

personal contribution, but when the time comes, if I

cannot win primaries, if I cannot

gain some level of public support,

I will step back without any problem to the second,

third, fourth, or twenty-fifth row.

And I will be perfectly happy not to

be involved in politics at all if there are other

politicians to do it.

>> I apologize, breaking news. In

St. Petersburg, an explosion has occurred in one of the supermarkets

At least nine

people have been injured, according to a source at the Interfax

news agency. That is the breaking alert coming in

now, and I think we will hear more shortly.

>> Horrific news. I hope there will be no

fatalities and, perhaps, that the number

of injured will be lower. Yes, this is very,

this is very frightening.

>> Alexei Navalny, in the Echo of Moscow studio.

My name is Alexei Solomin. All the

best. Thank you.

>> Bye.