Alexei Navalny on the program “Gosdep-2”

Good evening. Today we have

an unprecedented event. The program

Gosdep 2 is broadcasting live directly from

Astrakhan. It is genuinely

heated here today, and we will be discussing the events

that are taking place in this city today

and tomorrow’s upcoming rally. So,

let’s talk about all the existing problems.

But I would like to begin by saying that,

of course, for this discussion I

tried to invite

all interested parties. Unfortunately,

it did not work out in such a way

that we could have an evenly matched

debate in the studio, because to our invitation

Alexander Zhilkin initially responded and gave

a positive answer, and now we will

hear that. What did those negotiations sound like?

Please play the recording of the conversation with

Governor Alexander Zhilkin.

Alexander Alexandrovich, yes, good

evening once again. The thing is that our

film crew flew to

Astrakhan today.

Uh-huh.

To film the program in your city. And

we would like to invite you to join us tomorrow

in the studio, where we will be recording the next

episode of Gosdep to discuss,

essentially, the key issues of the day,

yes, regarding Oleg Shein’s hunger strike and

and so on. So, how do you feel about our

proposal? We would like you to

take part and, uh, share your

opinion on the matter and, as they say,

also report, yes, on what is happening,

what the situation in the city is at the

moment, and what can be expected. Yuchka, how

long will that be for you? It’s just that right now I

need to check my schedule, I do not

object.

And

we just need to understand what time,

right? So, tomorrow we are planning to start at

9:00 p.m. I think by then you will probably, in

principle, have finished your business,

and we will have a live broadcast.

Well then, let’s do that, I do not object,

but then tomorrow just give me a call

tomorrow, tell me everything, and I’ll come.

Yes, and one more thing, Sansanych, we would also like to

discuss Mr. Stolyarov as well, uh,

to talk about him. It seems he does not want

to give comments, but explain to him

that after all it would be, uh, well, somehow

in your interests, since it is your city. And

we would like you as well

Well yes, I’ll talk about it tomorrow

Otherwise it turns out that you,

well, that was roughly the kind of

conversation we had with Alexander Zhilkin.

Please turn off the sound, otherwise I

am hearing myself doubled, tripled, yes, it is very difficult. And

we had roughly the same conversation with

Mr. Stolyarov. We will also

definitely post it on the website. Let me immediately

apologize for all the technical problems,

because this really is the first time

probably since television in the

1990s that we have worked in these kind of

conditions, on location, but at the same time

live on air. Today, together with Dmitry

Gudkov, we met with the governor,

and he promised to come to this live

broadcast so that the debate with Oleg Shein could

take place. It always seemed to me that

a person who holds power and

occupies such a high office should always

be accountable for his words. Therefore I

would like to address, probably first

of all, you, Dmitry, as a person

who could confirm this. Did Governor

Zhilkin give his word?

I confirm that. First he asked us

whether Shein would be there. We said:

"Yes, he will." Well, then there will probably be

conflict, a scandal, I do not want to go. Then

we persuaded him, saying that each

side should express its point

of view. The sound is feeding back again here, if

it can be turned off. So then he

confirmed to us that he would come to this broadcast

We need to do something about the sound, friends.

Yes. So, he confirmed that he would come

to the broadcast

I

Navalny, Yashin, Shein there, I’ll wipe the floor with all of you

all. And I assure you that I have plenty of

arguments in support of the claim that the elections

were fair.

You mean he wanted to invite you

fishing?

No, he really wanted to do this in order

to express his point of view.

We really were waiting for him. And

when Ksenia and I read on the internet

today that the governor had refused

to participate, I called him, and he did not

answer me. I sent him an SMS message:

"Alexander Astanovich, please confirm,

whether you will be there or not."

There was no response at all.

I then managed to get through to the press secretary,

asked her to clarify it after all, and

the press secretary, Natalya, she also

has not been answering my calls for half an hour already.

That is the situation.

And yet the man gave his word. And next I

want to develop this story further, and then we will

move on to the debate. Today, standing in for the

governor, unfortunately, Leonid

Anatolyevich Ogul, you will also have to

answer for this. You came up to me right

before the broadcast, led me out of the room, and

said that the governor had asked you to personally tell me

that he would not be able to attend for

reasons that should be clear to me, and that I

understand why. I can honestly

tell you that I do not understand why. So

please explain right away these specific

circumstances,

which, as I understand it, were discussed at the meeting. You

met with him today, after all.

What do you mean?

Absolutely, yes, of course. And he gave his word,

that he

you met, well, I do not know, well

you spoke with him for quite a long time,

and Dmitry has just confirmed that he

drank four cups of coffee and talked and

discussed issues. As I understand it, you

were given the reasons for his absence,

considering that this is

Wait, he said that he would come and

gave his word that he would come.

Listen, it seems to me that the reason is obvious

and plain to see. The reason

is as follows: the word of a United Russia member

is worth nothing. This happens in

elections, this happens in private

conversations. If a United Russia member gives his word, all

voters in Astrakhan, in Russia, everywhere

should know: that word is worth nothing.

It is empty air. United Russia members cannot be trusted.

This is not rudeness. Here we see

confirmation of my words. Given that

as I understand it, you recorded the telephone

calls, this is my first time on your

program, and of course I do not know all the nuances,

let's put it this way, of the negotiation

process. I didn't know. I got a call yesterday

very politely. Yulechka, Leonid

Anatolyevich, will you be there? I was so

pleased, I said, you know, with

pleasure. Well, and as far as I know, I was flying out

and I might not have been able to, but it so

happened that I stayed. I did so of my own

free will, believe me.

Leonid Anatolyevich, the thing is that you were not

given the floor. That's the only issue. We

wouldn't be discussing someone's

absence for so long if it weren't for the fact that

the person cut into the recording when I was, in

fact, explaining my reasons.

No, you're here.

I'd like to address you: tell us,

is the hunger strike continuing, and if so,

why, after the leader of your

party called on you to end this hunger strike,

did you nevertheless decide to

continue it?

Well, first of all, I want to say that

the hunger strike is, of course, continuing.

The only thing is, aside from me, and as I

understand today, others are also ready tomorrow

to move to a stricter regime. My

comrades did ask me to start

drinking juices.

But the hunger strike continues for one reason.

This is not a question of electing Oleg Shein

mayor of the city. It is a question of restoring in

Astrakhan freedom and democracy,

which Astrakhan does not have. You can see it

today: hundreds of police officers have been deployed in the city's streets.

They are preventing people from entering

their own city so that in that city

they can express their opinion. People cannot

get to their workplaces, or to their

homes, or to shops, let alone to the

administration building. The day before yesterday a police

helicopter was circling overhead. Today

the administration informed a large

number of transport operators that it is depriving them of

their work. And this is disrupting another market as well.

I'll finish. The reason is simple. Uh, you cannot live

in a concentration camp. And in a concentration camp

the only form of protest, where the

prosecutor's office doesn't work, the courts don't really

work, is indeed a hunger strike.

All right. Still, returning once again

to my question, it seemed to me that

there is a certain hierarchy within the

party. Why, after the leader of

your party, Mr. Mironov, called on

you to end this hunger strike, did you not

comply?

Sergei Mikhailovich and I have

comradely relations. Comradely

relations imply an exchange of views,

where, on issues not covered by the party program,

everyone may remain of their own opinion.

This is not a programmatic party issue.

Yes. And excuse me, one more question. I will also

again refer to witness Dmitry.

It may seem tactless to you,

but I cannot help asking it. The thing is

that today, during a conversation with

Governor Zhilkin, he

said that his daughter saw on the

plane that you were eating. She, unfortunately,

did not manage to record it on

camera, but she did witness it. Am I,

Dmitry, correct?

Yes, the governor did indeed say that.

Yes.

Could that have happened, or is it a lie? They

always have something that wasn't recorded, something that wasn't

photographed, and all that remains are empty

words. That is characteristic of United Russia

and of Mr. Zhilkin as well.

May I, as a doctor, yes? Well,

believe me, I have 25 years of experience as a doctor,

an intensive care physician. Uh, how shall I put it?

All right. Your verdict as a doctor,

please.

I can tell you, well, that kind of

number of days a person can fast

is practically impossible,

you understand? No, I can, I can

tell you,

the phrase "believe me," coming from a United Russia member, already

sounds ridiculous. I can tell you,

go ahead, tell me how I can

help you, as a doctor

It's simple. Let a nurse come,

take a sample from you for a biochemical

blood test. Then everything will be clear there.

Whether you are fasting or not. That's it,

Oleg, and that will settle the question for

journalists, colleagues, and everyone else.

The amount of speculation

there's nothing terrible about that, Oleg. I'll

put it this way. United Russia

doesn't know anything at all, doesn't

read the literature, just like Mr.

Ogul. I'll explain now, I'm answering a

specific question.

Uh, what? And

wait a second

this will work in your favor, wait with your

stolen parliamentary mandate

what do you know about Astrakhan

I didn't steal it from you, you lost it

exactly, thanks to your electoral

commissions

I picked it up

you lost it

just say you stole it

friends, let's do this one at a time, please, I will definitely turn to

you as well, we're just in the middle of

actual hunger strikes went on

in prison conditions, that's no secret to anyone,

for 45 days, 73 days, even 115; not

everyone came out of them alive, but only

United Russia, possessing a different

practical experience of protest,

namely overeating. I think that a person who

hasn't eaten for a month; it has to be paid in advance.

with your feet. And as for your schemes, sir,

Ogul, about the tests, uh, our test is very

simple: the weight category. Right now I

weigh 68 kg. I have heart

problems. And no nurses for me,

whom you can throw out onto the street and

fire. How easy is that for you to do? Personally

for you, sir,

So you, you do not, do not agree with this, th-

these provocative things.

I see. Let's sort this out after all.

It seems to me that right now, in your

city as well,

We already heard the answer.

Leonid, well, your nurses depend entirely

on you. What are you

absolutely,

because you can easily

fire them if one of them gives me that

result. Come on, what are you talking about?

You're just messing people around, friends. Where are you

being treated? I'm healthy. I'm healthy.

Where are you being treated?

And you're not being treated in this country. We are

live on air.

Live. Let's speak one at a time. Look,

it seems to me the main problem

even with this discussion that I'm seeing

right now is that society has split

including in your city. Some

believe this is truly a sincere

civic protest, with people who

have come from Moscow, with activists.

Others believe it is a political

circus. So I would like to know who

among you shares the view that this is

a political circus. I do, and I, I want

to say this: thank God, I am not

a United Russia member, and I also oppose the authorities,

I criticize our authorities

...ists, you call everyone who speaks out

against Shein. Therefore, if you call

me a Nashi supporter, you are insulting me,

keep that in mind. So, those people

who are coming today, don't

interrupt me. Those people

who are coming to Astrakhan today from

Moscow,

those people who are coming to Astrakhan

from Moscow today and are being rude to Leonid Ogul.

I'm not defending a United Russia member right now, but

a person who works as a doctor.

Believe me, Alexei, the one who today

was shouting 'get out of the city' at Ogul. Ogul

is respected by people, and there's no need to be rude or

insult anyone. And these fights that

you started—you broke a post, you

smashed up the paving tiles. Guys, if you

came here, at least behave decently.

And one last thing: when Muscovites stand there and

Alexei Navalny shouts, "We are the power here

and this is our city." For me, as

a resident of Astrakhan, that's terribly offensive. We

would have sorted it out without you.

Please answer. Especially since

people really do want to know. Reports have appeared

in the press saying that

a criminal case has been opened against you over the alleged

ransacking of Putin's office.

I ransacked Putin's office here, burned down

several chapels, destroyed fortresses and

one of the Kremlin towers. And all the roads

I ruined too.

And apparently, these monstrously ruined

roads we drive on—

yes, that really was me. So,

first of all, to the gentlemen from United Russia, I

would like to say that I personally— Ilya,

please be quiet—personally, I live

in this country. Here, I'm telling you, look at what

you have done to the public reception offices, where

people come and receive

some kind of help.

Please, take your seat.

Please, take your seat. Sir

from Moscow, take the microphone. So,

the touring performer here, the outsider here,

listen to me, Mr. Ogul, who

with a stolen mandate lives in Moscow in

the deputies' residence and comes here only for

guest appearances. You see, this is my country, and

you are crooks and thieves from United Russia.

Friends, let's

take turns.

And then you yourselves say something about Dom-2 (a Russian reality TV show).

Please, let's give people a chance

to speak. You just couldn't stay quiet for 50

seconds. We can't hear anything. Let me

I'm being quiet. I'll clear the whole hall. For the last

time,

please,

you've latched onto these Astrakhan residents and are sucking

their blood so that Bazhenov

can fly around on airplanes. So that these

crooks from United Russia can move to Moscow and

live in the deputies' residence. You are the very

vampires of this city, because all of you are

bandits here. People are afraid of you. They

want at least someone to come and help

here. Who worked in the city of Kirov? Who

is working to trash the city of Kirov?

Stop trashing things—get out of Astra[khan]. Everyone

hates you.

All Astrakhan residents hate you.

Please, we are live on air. Let's

after this stream of consciousness has

finally stopped.

I would very much like

Alexei Navalny to calmly answer

my question about the accusation that

you ransacked Putin's office. Yes

or no?

I have never in my life seen any

Putin reception office in the city of Astrakhan. I

see photographs of some rather

run-down building. Unfortunately, in

the city of Astrakhan, because the United Russia people

Everything has been looted, and all the buildings look

pretty run-down. Unfortunately, I

hope that if the elected mayor had been

Mayor Shein, he would have repaired the building facades

here. I haven't seen any

facades here. If they want to open a criminal

case, let them open a criminal case and

prove that I burned down their reception office.

All right. Please. Next question. You

came here because you sincerely

support Oleg Shein, and it is very

important to you that he, specifically, become

nonsense. I came here because I

live in a country called Russia, and

Astrakhan Region is part of this country,

not some kind of Khazar Khaganate (a historical Turkic state) or whatever

they call it here. So,

there is law in our country, and I want

the person who is elected to become mayor in every city in Russia, including

Astrakhan,

the one people voted for. Shein, not Shein, Ogul,

whoever they want, let them elect. But when I

see these video recordings, I see lawlessness

— complete, blatant lawlessness. And when I

see a man who has been elected mayor

for the second time forced to go on hunger strike,

because he cannot achieve anything, and

the residents are intimidated by these bandits and

crooks, I have no

choice but to come here and support him,

because this is my country, this is Russia, not

some Khazar Khaganate (a historical Turkic state). Ladies and gentlemen of United Russia.

I see. Oleg Shein, I’ll give you

a chance to speak. Oleg Shein, a question

for you today. It has already been stated

that the videos show signs

of video editing. How do you

comment on that?

I’ll comment on it this way. I was very

amused by the statement of a member of the Central

Election Commission from the United Russia party,

Mr. Ivlev, who said

that he saw signs there of intra-

frame editing.

Uh, today I was surprised together with Vitraganovich and

asked what that even means. This is not

Hollywood, and we won’t see clowns like United

Russia standing in the election commission

here. I would ask now, if

possible, to play a short clip,

about a minute and a half to two minutes long.

Yes, we do in fact have a video segment.

Let’s look at the screen. Attention

to the scree

Is the video segment going on air or not?

Explain it to me.

Yes, one second, we’re having technical

problems. I’ll let you know when we

have that capability. I would like

to address you as a member of United

Russia. Here, Alexei Navalny,

he is United Russia’s representative on the

Central Election Commission.

All right.

He represents United Russia. Let me clarify. No,

regarding Alexei Navalny’s statement,

what do you think: under the authorities that were

elected, will the appearance

of those buildings that were just shown

to us in the photographs change, and

more generally, what will change over this year?

I asked you today. This is your first time

coming to Astrakhan. You said it was your first

time. I want to point out that Astrakhan

has been transformed, and transformed very

impressively. There is an embankment with no

equal, uh, on the Volga. There are fountains,

bridges, canals. It has been renovate-

And who is all that thanks to?

It’s thanks to the program. It’s thanks

to the program. It’s thanks to the funding.

It’s thanks to the fact that Astrakhan,

Astrakhan is, you know, a pearl

on the Caspian. And people noticed it. That is a separate

conversation. Thanks to these wonderful, marvelous

changes. Very kind,

very decent, good people live here. There are also

people here who are on hunger strike.

Here, here, here—this is not a bandit

city, as the leader of the A Just Russia party

said, and I asked him

to apologize at the session

of the regional Duma, but he

ugly ducked the question. And I

think, Dmitry, you were there, weren’t you?

You didn’t even let me speak. You didn’t give me

five minutes to speak, do you understand? You got scared,

and scattered as soon as I stepped up to the

podium—they announced a recess. That’s what happened.

And before that, we passed through four police cordons

to get in there. Four cordons. That is

true.

So much for a parliament of the people. In no

other region is there anything like this.

There was no need to break anything in the Duma.

LDPR

voted for the rules of procedure that,

so to speak, were supposed to apply. Oleg Vasilyevich was given the floor,

Mironov was given the floor,

all representatives of the authorities were given the floor. Dmitry

wanted to speak additionally, but

a violation of the rules of procedure cannot be allowed.

No, of course not

Well then how? If you had wanted to, we would have

heard you out.

You know, over there you vote for your own

rules, your own rules. You have

a United Russia majority there, right?

So when it came to refusing to give me the floor,

those who voted were

United Russia members,

while Oleg Shein and his colleagues, on the contrary,

voted to let me speak.

There is one thing I don’t understand. A State Duma deputy came

to see you. You gave Khinshtein the floor,

you were given the floor, Lysakov was given the floor on behalf

of United Russia.

I was here on March 4. Dmitry, let’s start with

the person who was given the floor, let’s move on to

the main topic. Here with us, uh, we have

also invited people who

are still taking part, as far as I

understand, in this voluntary hunger strike.

Please pass the handheld microphone, uh,

so that I can ask a question. My question

is as follows. When I was at the

campaign headquarters today, the first thing people told me,

the people who are on hunger strike with you, was that

that

a very important point is that we are challenging

specifically the elections in Astrakhan. We are not

challenging the presidential election and

consider it fair. Please explain

your position. Pass the

microphone. It’s somewhere there, the microphone.

We don’t have a microphone. Then how am I supposed to

do this?

Oh, even I don’t understand how to get out

of this situation now. All right, for now let Oleg

Shein answer. Yes,

we will answer. Well, as for the presidential elec-

let me answer myself.

No, well, that was the first thing

the people said, I can tell you that. The thing

is that in Astrakhan, the difference, the difference

between the manual vote count and

the machine count. Under the manual count,

the results are diametrically

different from the machine count. In the

presidential election, that is not the case. Putin

got 56% in Astrakhan. And many of those who

voted for Putin also voted for

me. That is why we are not raising that issue,

though if necessary we will raise it, because

it is an important issue. Do you support

Putin?

I’ll put it this way. I support Putin in

the area of foreign policy. At the same time,

I have a completely different view

on social policy and on how

the building of

democracy in our country should look. Although

his recent steps on transparency levels

and webcams personally pleased me a great deal.

Now, regarding the brief remark

about the gangster-like authorities in the city of

Astrakhan.

Before we get to the gangster-like authorities, let me still

ask one more question. Don’t you think

that there is simply a certain

contradiction in advocating fair,

free elections without falsification in

your case, while not supporting the idea

that falsification during the

presidential election also took place?

I’ll explain with the numbers. Here the local authorities

were shaking with fear, I believe, that

they would lose their privileged positions,

because they really faced the prospect of

losing. They are thieves, and the kind

that should not be tolerated. This is not an exaggeration,

I’ll show it with examples now. As for

the presidential election: Astrakhan residents voted

for Putin because

Putin, regardless of Zhilkin, regardless of

Bozhenov or Stolyarov, really did help the city

through the improvement works carried out for the anniversary celebrations.

Uh, and this is reflected in the machine

count from the KOIB machines (electronic ballot-scanning machines). Putin got 56% on the KOIBs

and a little over 60% in the manual count there.

Well, there is a difference, but not a fundamental one. But

in the mayoral election, under the

machine count I had 47%, while under the manual count

I had 30%, and at some polling stations one and a half to two percent. And

Mr. Stolyarov had less than I did

in the machine count, but in the manual count

twice as much. And when they show the

video, all of this will be visible.

All right, we’ll show the video. Yes, Ilya, why did you

come? Perhaps Oleg may not

agree with me, but I came in order to express

support for the people of Astrakhan, because we li-

they live not only in Astrakhan, but also

in Russia. It is very important to me that people

understand that they are not alone here. The

problems they face in

elections, with falsification,

manipulation—people encounter them,

wait, don’t interrupt me,

drop your United Russia habit and

your Nashi movement habit of interrupting everyone. You will be given

the floor.

Ask.

It is very important that people here understand

that they are not alone, not by themselves. And we

came from different cities in order

to express our support for them,

to demonstrate our solidarity and

to show that it’s one for all and all for

one. As for

the issue Oleg raised. I,

he may disagree with me, but it seems to me

very important to emphasize that the

system that has been built in Russia,

the system of falsification, manipulation,

and usurpation of power, of course has its roots

in the Kremlin. This is not a unique

situation, and responsibility for it, in the

end, lies with Mr. Putin. So

I would urge the people of Astrakhan under no

circumstances not to trust all these Kremlin

crooks and thieves who will now

be making promises and saying that we’ll sort it out

in court. It is important to understand that all

of them are covering for the crooks and thieves

who operate here locally.

So that means going to court is

useless, in your view.

You know, the logic is this: if you don’t like

my election commission, go to my court. Obviously

throughout the country all these

election commissions, all these courts,

are under the full control

of the administrative machine. And you know,

a year and a half ago I was in the city of

Kaliningrad. Onto the square came

In Kaliningrad, a city of 300,000, 12,000

people came out. The key demand was

the resignation of the thieving,

corrupt governor.

The Kremlin really did not want to give him up.

There were harsh statements, and

prosecutors came in; people were intimidated and

bribed. But 12,000 people came out to

the square. Three months later, there was no—there was no

governor there anymore.

So I urge people to fight for that.

Just remember, dear friends,

residents of Astrakhan, remember: only your

political will can turn

the situation around. Do not fall for tricks, do not

fall for lies. Tomorrow at 5:00

come to the square by the Kirov monument.

Only that can change the situation.

We will definitely discuss this rally.

Please. You want to

First. Exactly. In Kaliningrad,

12,000 people. I would note that here

after a broad publicity campaign,

which was carried out—well, let me put it this way. I

was getting text messages urging me to come to

the rally. Out of a population of 500,000, 500,000

people, 100 people came. One hundred

people. The maximum turnout at the rally

was 300 at most. But against Shein

2,000 people came. And as soon as we brought them out,

we were immediately accused of being

Nashi activists or United Russia members, even though I have

nothing to do with that party. And

one more point, one small

point: right now, I completely

agree with Yashin. Honestly,

I do. In what sense? Because

it is impossible to protest against the mayoral election

while at the same time shielding Putin, as

Shein is doing. If the elections were unfair

in the mayoral race, then he should say plainly

that Putin’s election was unfair too.

However, he is taking a very crafty line. For

Putin, the votes were counted correctly, but for mayor

they were not.

How should this position be interpreted?

I am Shein’s colleague in A Just Russia. I

want to say that it was not

both elections were unfair.

That is what you are saying. Can you say the same

thing? One second, Oleg, can you say

the same thing?

Yes, I will say this.

No, can you stand by this

statement?

Two different ballots, therefore two

different motivations. Here in our district

there are also people taking part who voted as well.

A question. Just now your party colleague

said that both elections were

rigged and unfair.

From my point of view, at a number of

polling commissions, they probably did,

including adding votes in the presidential election,

but it was not of the same grotesque,

outrageous character as the election for mayor

of the city. That is the first point. Second. And we proposed

gentlemen, that is a rather vague answer,

that is the right answer, because these

gentlemen from United Russia and those who

feed there on the crumbs from Zhilkin’s

table, are really not going to like

what I am about to say. I will say this.

The administration is very scared. We

proposed a perfectly proper

option today. We told them: "Why don’t we

hold a referendum? You think

there is no need for elections. Then let us hold a referendum

in the city. Were the mayoral elections conducted fairly

or not? Zhilkin lost his nerve.

He lost his nerve and dragged himself onto this program,

because he has nothing to say in response,

because under any honest vote count

everything would fall into place. In your

view, Alisa, why did he refuse such

a referendum option?

And why should we hold a referendum

if we really did conduct fair

elections? I personally am confident in

my victory. Why? What for?

A 30% gap is enormous. Then why, if

there is such unrest in the city, why not

hold a referendum?

And why should he spend

budget money just to satisfy someone’s

ego? Budget

money should be spent on maintaining order, on

keeping the situation in the city calm

and protecting people simply from a crowd

of Muscovites. A crowd of people from Moscow came running in.

People complain to me all day long. Even just now,

while I was coming here by minibus, people

I was riding with were already complaining

that they are fed up with these Muscovites.

Just yesterday an elderly woman came up to me and

said there were three people hanging around there.

Since you have already raised this topic,

how did this happen to coincide with today’s

action by the people who work on the

routes? I know,

not just by hearsay. And we work with these minibus drivers

and know them well. There are

activists there; yes, it coincided. It coincided with

this action, the action

being carried out

by our guests from Moscow as well.

Then why does it turn out that

Lyarov is hiring people from other cities,

from Volgograd? No. Buses were purchased

buses

through leasing. Through leasing, specifically from Vol—

in fact, in Volgograd they make beautiful,

good buses, if you saw them today.

But as it turns out—and I will explain—private planes

of the governor? No, this is ours, this is

Russian-made production in Volgograd,

good buses, in the Southern Federal

District they were purchased. This contract was

was signed a long time ago. These

buses arrived. So what do we get? These buses

were put out to tender, and they won the competition for those

routes, when today the activists and I

sat down for a constructive discussion, at the table

for negotiations, and came to the conclusion that

the minibus operators working in

Astrakhan, in fact, are not operating within

the legal framework, and they do not have

proper contracts with the city administration

that would allow them to operate. Yes, they needed

to be renewed as of today.

Ksen, no,

wait. Everything

Mr. Ulya's words are lies.

I have in my hands a photocopy of a ticket right now,

which is issued to people on these so-

called buses. And here it says

a Volgograd registration number. This is a Volgograd

company, registered in Volgograd.

No budget money was spent.

Mr. Ugol is lying, just like all United Russia members.

And as a result, now the money

from passenger transport in Astrakhan, 1.5 billion rubles

will go to the city of Volgograd along with

the taxes, and the city will lose even more. And this is

how they have been looting the region all these

years, selling off one enterprise after

another. And I also want to say the following.

Now, about gangster-run Astrakhan.

Just two words. It is Astrakhan's gangster authorities,

not the people. The head of the Kirovsky District,

a party member,

got a year and a half for extortion and

now goes to two places only: to work and to

the police station to sign in under his travel restrictions.

The deputy to the mayor for housing and utilities, Mr.

Dedenko, became a defendant in January

in a criminal case over the theft of funds

from the capital repairs program, money that came

from Moscow. And they put all city property under the responsibility of

they put in charge of all city property

Deputy Mayor Mr. Sitnikov, who

was sought by Interpol throughout the 1990s because of

his ties to the Solntsevo organized crime group (a major Moscow criminal syndicate) and because of

his use of fake Greek

passports. This is a literal gang

of treasury looters who are turning Astrakhan

into something like a concentration camp. And when

we say that people are not coming out, well

yesterday the entire city center was cordoned off.

People could not get anywhere at all.

The day before yesterday, a police helicopter

was circling overhead. And the day before yesterday, an interesting

thing happened: they drove public-sector workers into the center under pressure

and then led these

provocateurs over to us. The provocateurs

were kicked out by the people. The ones sitting there too.

And the public-sector workers came over to our side

and rallies went on all day thanks to the very

crowd that the Zhilkins had assembled for us.

Applause.

All right. Alexei, I have a question for you. Doesn't it

seem strange to you that it took

your coming here, that some people from Moscow had to come,

that people from Moscow had to come,

that the main opposition forces had to come here for

any kind of movement to arise here?

Why couldn't Astrakhan residents themselves, without your

help, for example, organize

this? If this does not suit them here,

if they are unhappy with it,

yes, I will also give you a chance

to speak.

I'll say something very simple. First of all, 400

Astrakhan residents came out. Is that a lot or a little?

A year ago in Moscow, 400 people came out

to a rally, even though the city has a population of 9 million

people. So these gentlemen, in support of themselves,

would gather zero people for free.

I saw that rally of

public-sector workers. They stood there, looking around, and after

half an hour they were gone. With budget money, they

drive out public-sector workers who

are protecting their stolen money. Yes,

it is true that a small number of people came here

from different regions. They

came. Why? Well, because they are

outraged. If they say that Shein

had no support here, and that their

Stolyarov won, then why were observers expelled from all

polling stations? Members

of election commissions with voting rights. Gudkov saw it

with his own eyes. The internet is full of videos

showing police carrying people out by their arms and

legs. So what are you afraid of then?

Why are you driving them out? Astrakhan residents themselves

did not come out without the support of these

Moscow opposition figures.

Because they were intimidated by the local ma-

bandits back in 2009. A mi-

Just stop insulting us.

I'll give you a chance to speak now. I

will definitely ask you the same question.

He won the mayoral election once. And

today I was talking with these

minibus operators, who, excuse me,

are definitely not Muscovites, not even

close. Right in front of you I asked: who

among you voted for Stolyarov? Zero hands.

Who among you voted for Shein? Everyone. They

all say: "We voted for him,

we supported him. They slashed the tires on our cars."

These are real bandits. Not bandits in

a figurative sense. Actual bandits.

The former mayor, Bazhenov, flies to Italy

on planes paid for with stolen money.

You asked who voted for Shei-? They showed zero.

They showed

it — you were there yourself.

So, as I understand it, your view is that

if opposition figures from

Moscow had not come, there would have been no unrest here

at all.

The thing is that for many years Sheya-

has been protecting the minibus operators of As-

Just the other day, literally, really, just

the other day in our residential district, in our resi-

In a small town, a girl gets hit. It’s hard

to imagine Mr. Shein

covering for anyone or anything.

Yes, the circus has come to town, great performers.

I completely agree. But what’s the point

of it? You can’t defend

lawlessness. We support quality public transport,

and no one there was speaking out against the routes.

Yes, but when they act outrageously, they need to be

put in their place. And you, you don’t

know what the hell they’re doing to you. This is

real lawlessness. Shein always, Shein

always stands up for them, and in return he

gets certain things. Now as for

Bozhenov. The reason I’m saying this is,

why is it that people don’t trust Shein?

Yes, Shein may be fighting for the right

cause, for fair elections. And I’m for fair

elections too, and against United Russia. All of that is

right. But he always hides

certain facts. Sergei Bozhenov, whom

he talks about and mocks, and then there’s

Yashin, the whole thing with the plane, yes, all that

back and forth. That’s all correct, right? Well, all of it is

correct. Now let’s take a look. I specifically

brought the documents, downloaded them. I wrote about this

a long time ago. Let’s look.

Based on the joint SOS program, we decided

to support Bozhenov as

a candidate for mayor of Astrakhan.

Signed: Shein.

The year 2004. Wait, hold on, that’s not

all. In 2004, the Labor Protection Trade Union

was headed by Shein, and in that same year,

at roughly the same time, into that account there came

$100,000. Tell me,

and it was listed as a voluntary donation, guys,

these are documents.

Well yes, you can hand them over. Oleg,

now this is a real

real one.

And after this you say people should trust him,

I’m for fair elections, but not for Shein,

who is lying to all of you.

Labor Protection.

The Labor Protection trade union. It is

a nationwide trade union association.

So, one second, which in fact

has leadership and which

works with many organizations. And it

really does pool funds for

strike funds, for strike

action. We have done this and will continue to do so without

any lackeys from United Russia. We

don’t care what United Russia thinks on this

issue. That’s first. Second. Mr.

Bozhenov did indeed take on certain

commitments that year.

For example, to stop suing

residents over housing and utility tariffs. And the other

mayoral candidate was suing them. Whom did we

support? The one who made those

commitments. And when Mr. Bozhenov

walked back on those commitments,

we stopped supporting him literally

immediately. And I want to say more than that: all

these years we have been fighting against

this criminal city administration of

Astrakhan. The people sitting to my left,

on the contrary, all through last autumn

stood shoulder to shoulder with city hall employees

and fought against us. This is a group

of professional provocateurs who

are known to everyone in Astrakhan.

That year I helped Shein fight against

Bozhenov. But it’s true,

he is simply lying. Your claims are deception,

honestly. It’s a fraud.

Fraud in what sense? Fraud in the fact that first of all

the people on the left were pointing at me. From the very

beginning, from the moment I created

my public organization, yes, it has been

oppositional, I have been fighting Bozhenov from the very

start up to the present day. In 2009,

in 2009 I helped. In 2009

I, I helped in 2009.

Uh-huh.

You’re being ridiculous. There you go insulting people again,

you understand? You’re insulting young people.

Let’s, yes, do this without

I’ll compare the two signatures. Everyone here knows

my signature, right? And

accordingly, this little slip of paper

on top

these are fake papers being

handed around here.

This is about the payment.

But you just said that there was

a transfer of money to the trade union.

At first you said that

Wait, let’s sort this out. This is an important

point, it concerns the documents.

When you began answering this

question, at first you stated and explained your

position regarding this money, right? And

now, just so we understand,

the Labor Protection trade union regularly

works with our trade union

organizations, including on the matter of

strike funds.

I see. Let’s sort this out now. This

is fake, at the very least because

the signature that is supposed to be mine does not

match the version that is presented here

before us.

All right, let’s return, let’s

return to the hunger strikers. Still,

while all these passions are flaring up here,

Oleg Shein and the people

who are, among others, here in this

studio, are continuing their hunger strike. Oleg, I

have a question for you. Don’t you think

that you are taking responsibility

for other people, not only for your own

health,

but for these people as well. And if, God forbid,

and if, God forbid, something happens to them as well,

friends, please,

Let's behave properly. If, God forbid,

something happens to them, including if

you are blamed for it. In other words, there will be

be a situation in which you end up

being made the scapegoat.

I'll say this. Unlike them,

we don't force anyone to do anything. With us,

people do this voluntarily. Just as people

once voluntarily went to give their

lives for their motherland. They simply don't understand

that this is, in fact, no less

important than the motherland. That is beyond them.

Do you feel responsible for these

I feel responsible for my comrades.

And one more thing I want to say. Now that

Churov has agreed to watch with us

that very video, I hope we will see it now,

because I have persuaded some of my

comrades, and I think I will be able to persuade all of them

to use it. I myself

am not using it as of today.

Today for

I see. But don't you think that you will

later be accused of

manipulating your own supporters?

We are not manipulating anything. This is

entirely voluntary.

Weren't you, Alexei, Ilya,

planning to join as well, and Dmitry to join

this hunger strike too? This hunger strike

in Astrakhan.

Let me put it this way. May I say one more

thing? Here they are shouting that

Muscovites have come here, and that

the citizens sitting to my left came here

from Moscow, and so on. Yes. To Yasha's left.

So let me explain.

This is after a good third of our

regional legislature has been made up of

millionaires from Volgograd, Orenburg,

and Moscow, when people are elected to the State Duma of the Russian

Federation saying, "I love St. Petersburg,

it's a very beautiful city." But those elected are

representatives of St. Petersburg, Moscow, Lukoil, and

other companies. In other words, they sold off all the spoils

to their friends, the millionaire members of

the party of crooks and thieves. And now they

reproach us because decent people, citizens of

Russia, who are fighting for democracy in

the country, come to support us. No,

comrades, if you work with your

millionaires, handing over both property in the region and

power to them, then we work with

those who have a conscience, regardless of

which city they live in.

I see. Alexei, Ilya, this question is primarily

for you. Tomorrow there will be a rally at

5:00 p.m. People who disagree with

the election results will come to support

this position in the city's main square

in Astrakhan. Many people, as I

understand it, accuse you of not caring at all

about these elections, and that you are only interested

in creating yet another,

so to speak, wave of unrest and restarting

the process that had already begun in

Moscow and then died down. What is your

interest in these events? Do you

really support Shein

or are you not hiding that these are some kind of

broader interests? Nashi thugs. And

the residents of Astrakhan, for the most part,

thank us, because you yourselves were

witnesses today in the square to how people

came up to us and thanked us.

The residents of the city,

came up to us and thanked us. No need

to shriek. What is this habit of ours, always

shrill yelling and squealing? Learn,

learn parliamentary

discussion... Astrakhan residents

want, to begin with,

our provocateurs. Nashi provocateurs

I have beaten, I beat, and I will beat.

So you are now confirming that you

settle things with your fists. Go on, go on,

Ilya, run along.

[inaudible]

It is important that in regional elections

the local authorities feel resistance

when they try to falsify the vote.

Among other things, they call you a professional

provocateur. These people sitting

here can also call you

a professional provocateur, just as you

call others professional provocateurs.

You know, frankly, I don't care

what they call me. There isn't a spot on them

left for another brand. There is nowhere left to put

another mark on them. It seems to me that a very simple

compromise is possible here. Yes.

It is obvious that the so-called mayoral election

in Astrakhan has caused serious social

tension in the city.

No

serious social tension in

the city. The press here

there is no tension in

the city right now.

Here is a simple proposal.

Are you seriously saying that now?

Let me finish, let me

finish, please.

Stop shrieking. Let me

finish. Then you can speak. Here is

a simple proposal, namely that

this is what people are demanding. They are not

demanding that Shein be appointed mayor of Astrakhan.

People are saying, "Let's hold

new, fair elections so that

there can be no possible doubt." It is completely

obvious that if new elections are called,

so many observers will come here

that no one would even

think of saying

that they were falsified. And if

Stolyarov considers himself the legitimate mayor and

simply a man who knows how to answer

for his words, then let him run

in the election and prove that he is

a legitimate mayor, instead of hiding in the bushes.

has already been elected and is working. May I speak?

Let me speak. Yes, let me speak.

You're talking about Muscovites. Well, I am exactly

that very Muscovite. Let me speak. I

did not vote for him, in fact. That's right.

Well, let me speak. I am that very Muscovite,

who was here

from March 4 to 5.

When there were,

so, I and two of my colleagues from the

A Just Russia faction came

here in order to help Oleg. I

ran for office in Tambov, which is considered

the capital of election fraud. So I thought

that when I arrived in Astrakhan, things here would be

child's play.

Unfortunately, what I saw here,

what you found here,

what I saw here is beyond outrageous,

by any standard. 200 polling stations. No, I

should say 200

polling stations.

100 of our observers and election commission members were

simply thrown out. There were girls sitting there,

girls just like you. You say

Yashin attacks girls. Well then,

your people were attacking girls, and they were

crying at our headquarters. Because fine,

I've never attacked women.

They were throwing out deputies, do you understand?

Look at the very video we've been talking so much about.

That video, on the basis of which

Oleg Shein is planning to file

a lawsuit and challenge the election results.

Attention to the scree

You're filming.

I'm not filming faces, I'm filming from above.

Look, like this.

So, do you not understand at all that

put the camera away. You're violating

the voters' expression of will.

But you're not letting me through. Let's

take a short pause.

Throw him out

by the neck. Again

again

again by the neck.

Then the stack goes further.

It goes further.

This is the stack that was lying there.

Again, it's by the neck.

It's happening again.

Take your hands off.

He's pushing.

Well, there it is, the very video that

people are already saying was

edited in some way. But these are

the words Oleg Vasilyevich acknowledged today

on Channel One. He said, yes,

it was edited for the viewers' convenience. And,

of course, then he again refused

to show how observers were being thrown out.

Edited. I have a question, dear

friends, I have a question. Right now they cut

3 minutes out of it and insert it. This is what they

call editing. This is not editing, this is

cutting out a fragment,

that didn't fit together, you understand? So

they cut it out.

The first question, Oleg Vasilyevich, is for you.

When will you submit all the materials to the court?

Well, I'll answer. We will submit all the materials

on Monday, because

today we spent the whole day copying

7,000 hours of state video footage onto electronic

storage media. I thought it would take less

time. It actually lasted 9

hours.

So you were editing it, I see.

Now, those people for whom

you are responsible, who are on hunger strike—can all this

wait until the court's decision and then come back

to this? That's not our business. Understood. And now

the next thing. Information has appeared

online, Ksenia, that

tomorrow there will arrive here

a landing party

from the A Just Russia faction on a charter flight

a very large number of people,

several dozen on a charter

plane. Is this what these papers are about, because

with what money are they coming, from United Russia's point of view? I

am answering: we gave this to you. Russia

take your little papers back, take them.

Take your little papers back, take them.

Give me those papers.

Instead of answering for their

crimes, they start slandering us.

First by saying that we receive money

at the U.S. embassy, then that we

received $100,000 for Shein's fund,

now it's charter planes. And before that

you were saying that Mironov

was providing support,

Can you just answer the question? Is it

not true. Tomorrow members will come here.

They will come here, of course they will.

Let's turn to someone. Right now I will

bring Maxim on, friends, through our

ambient mic. We'll catch him that way,

because we're having microphone problems.

Friends, please, 2 seconds,

2 seconds of silence. I... but unfortunately,

you falsified the election here.

So, Leonid Anatolyevich, Leonid, 2

seconds, please, attention. Here we have

a person who came from Moscow.

He is not a member of the A Just Russia party.

He isn't. We'll find out now.

Maxim Vitorgan, an actor. Maxim, why

did you come here?

I came here on my own money. I bought

myself a regular ticket. Yes, we believe you.

I am paying for my own hotel. The money was

earned through my profession.

exclusively.

You're the only one like that.

Nothing more. I'm asking you very sincerely.

There was one thing here that really

upset me.

I'm sorry, I don't know your name. This

young man's girlfriend. I'm asking you very

seriously. When I flew here, on the

plane, at passport control, I had to

show my passport.

Hey—

I arrived with a pa- with a passport of a citizen

of the Russian Federation.

This is my home. Don't tell me where

I should go. All right.

And you don't need to lecture us.

We don't need to be taught.

If you're going to come here to us. No,

please, come. We're always glad to see

everyone. But when someone comes here and

starts behaving badly, that's

not normal.

Separatism.

But I'm already explaining, guys. First of all,

first of all, the falsifiers—everything is clear with

them. Everything about them is obvious. Fine. But do I

have any complaints against him? Do I really

have any complaints against him?

A militant form of separatism toward Navalny

separatism

won't lead to anything good. Well

we respect [him] very much. Look, imagine this,

just imagine one thing.

We have great respect for your father, who

is part of the All-Russian Popular Front.

Now I'd like to say one more thing.

Uh, for me there really is

I actually don't know how the elections

went in Astrakhan. I came here

mainly as an observer and from the

position that I believe citizens

of their country should actively participate

and actively fight for the realization

of their rights. So. Which means I...

oh, sorry, I've lost my train of thought. I

don't know, I don't know how the elections went, but

I really do have a question

an ethical question about the responsibility

of Mr. Shein for his comrades who

are on hunger strike.

And I completely understand your complaints or

those kinds of doubts. I have that same

question too. I only have one other

question for this meeting.

I forgot the governor's name.

Alexander—Alexander, yes. Tell me,

please, he

is going around all the TV channels now, giving

a million interviews and dealing with the problem that arose in

the city, in his region. He's

being pulled in every direction, so he didn't have time

to come here and take responsibility for

the situation at hand.

That really is an excellent question,

Maxim, and we have an answer to it.

Please, put on right now in the studio

the recording with Mr. Stolyarov. And thank you

very much for that question. Maxim,

It will be the mayor, not the governor.

Yes. Hello.

Hello. Mikhail Nikolayevich, good evening.

This is the program Gosdep 2 with Ksenia Sobchak.

My name is Alisa. Just a few

minutes. Mikhail Nikolayevich, tomorrow from

Astrakhan we're doing a live broadcast to

Moscow about the situation in your city.

We'd like to invite you to our studio.

No, I won't come to your studio, because

I don't have time; I'm dealing with actual issues.

And the issue you want is

politics.

Without your position, without your account of

the situation.

What position? The way you're asking me now about

a position is absurd.

And everything else is

outside the scope of the city administration. And

please tell us, as the acting

mayor, can you comment

on what is happening right now in

the city?

No, I won't comment.

So tomorrow you won't come to us

to take part in the program?

No.

All right. Mikhail Nikolayevich, may I

call you back tomorrow morning? Maybe you'll

make a different decision.

Hello, Mikhail Nikolayevich. Call me,

of course you can. As for this, well, my

view is that I should be doing

my job, not playing politics.

Well, Leonid Anatolyevich, you see,

this is the main question both from

Maxim and from me as well. Why do the people from whom

we expect answers not come

here? Oleg Shein is here. The people

who came to Moscow are here.

Very lucky. Very lucky that he

was very lucky and managed to get out, managed to get out

a real administrator whom

could you be quieter. whom the people of Astrakhan know,

who worked for more than a year

as vice mayor, worked as vice mayor, and they

had a very good relationship—Oleg and

Mikhail Nikolayevich. And all those requests

that came in from Oleg

Vasilyevich, he fulfilled them. Is that right or

not?

That's not right. Let's move on.

And you ran, and you literally submitted

your documents at the very last moment. Just for the sake

of an experiment, as you say, I'll call

Mr. Stoyarov once again.

As for Mr. Stoyarov, excuse me,

a man who is planning to sell off all

the city's property, including the water utility,

the city lighting utility, Kommun... he confirmed it

literally a month ago, this is not

a competent manager. A competent manager would not carry anything out of

the house, but a petty thief would carry things out of

the house, after whom there would be

nothing left.

Mr. Stolerov is not answering

the phone. What is most outrageous in this

situation is the rudeness and brazenness

of these officials. They stole the votes. They do not want

to talk to anyone, no

comments. We will bring in OMON riot police,

sell everything off, cordon off the whole city, drive everyone

away, call everyone CIA agents, and we do not give a damn

about anything. They are real usurpers.

I will say, I will say one final phrase and

then I will remove myself after that. You

know, in my humble understanding of

political life in country X, where

free public elections take place,

at which the mayor of a city is freely and publicly

elected, he is obliged, just as

he behaved freely and

publicly before the election, to come and

resolve these issues in discussion. This is his

this is his, this is his duty.

Meetings and debates are

indeed different things. Excuse me.

By choice

and then excuse me, excuse me, excuse me,

one very last word. And then I think

that if during the election campaign

Mr. Stolerov had been invited

to some televised

campaign broadcast, and he had given this kind of

answer,

then it would be very hard for you to defend him now.

I have one last question on this

topic, Oleg. It is for you. Before the election, did you

have even a single direct debate with Mr. ...?

You did not have a single minute of airtime

at all during these

all our campaign videos were banned. And what does that have to do with

us?

They do not know how to do it any other way.

So, throughout the entire so-called

month and a half of the election campaign, we

did not have a single minute of television

airtime. There were no debates at all. You

were banned, of course,

at first, why Mr. Stolerov did not

come to these debates. There you have it,

the candidate

then still a candidate.

I can only guess, that is a matter

a question,

it is a matter of public politics,

I think, yes, you can call him and he will

answer you, I think, honestly.

But he did answer this question, he will answer,

I think. But the fact that the relations were

warm, and that they, as the saying goes,

Mikhail Nikolaevich helped

always and was accommodating when Sergey Anatolyevich Bozhenov was mayor,

and that all

issues, Oleg Vasilyevich, you resolved in

the mayor's office with Mikhail Nikolaevich. All the issues, I

will name them. I will name, I will name the issues that were resolved

issues concerning voters.

I will name them. Let us be specific. In

December, in my presence, you spoke with

Stolerov, who was asked in a friendly way

to restore electricity in cell block two at the prison, and he did.

And what more can I say? Yes, that happened

with him, and to verify it, open his

blog, open it. Yes, that is exactly how it was. He is

a scoundrel. You are right, bro.

Come on,

friends, let us not

not get sidetracked. Let us, let us

let us return to the course of the discussion. We have

people here who

are on hunger strike here. Friends, let us at least show

some respect for the people

who came here. It is quite

hard for them to be here in this stuffy

room. We are running out of airtime. I

want to address you now. We

managed somehow to get the connection working, and we

will finally be able to get the audio. What

could be the outcome of all this?

A positive outcome of your hunger strike. Under what

circumstances would you end the hunger strike?

After all, it is completely obvious after Putin's statement

and completely obvious from the position

of the authorities that only through the courts can there be

some kind of decision, and we can roughly

understand in advance what kind of

decision it will be. Where is the way out, how long will you

continue the hunger strike? You did not watch the video

that the Central Election Commission passed on to us. Perhaps,

please speak a little louder.

I cannot speak. I am sorry, but

just

that is why I do not speak at rallies.

It is all right,

...

how can this hunger strike end

positively? Positively.

Well, probably with our victory in any case

that is

in any event.

Well, what is victory? Is it annulment,

a rerun election,

yes? A rerun election.

Do you realize that most likely this will not

happen? That has already been made quite clear.

Then our Astrakhan authorities will fully

demonstrate, and in fact the Russian authorities will demonstrate as well,

that this lawlessness is being

legitimized here if there is no

rerun election now. No lawsuit has been filed.

Alexei, Ilya, Dmitry, a question for you. Do you

not want to persuade these people to stop

and at least come off the hunger strike? Tomorrow

there will be a rally. Maybe it would be better

to address this problem in those ways instead,

Maybe you, as people

whom these people now trust,

Will you be able to persuade them to end their hunger strike?

May I respond? Yes,

yes,

of course, we have tried to persuade them, and we’ve done so many

times,

but we must clearly understand that,

first of all,

this is a matter of principle for Oleg, for those

people who made that decision.

Second, I met with the governor twice,

Ksenia, and before that I had also spoken with him

about how he feels in general about the idea

of a new election and what way out he sees.

And he told me: "No, no, this is very

important." And then he said the following: that he

was ready to offer Oleg Shein the post of

vice governor.

In principle, that is a position equivalent to the post of

mayor. If we had come here

to grab something for ourselves, some

piece of the pie, Oleg probably would have agreed. But

he would not even discuss it. He would not even

discuss it. Today, together with you,

are you yourselves ready to support that, then?

Let me explain. Today, together

with you, Ksenia, yes, we were with the governor and

proposed a compromise option.

All right. If you are sure that Stolirov

is the most popular person in the city, then

let’s hold a referendum and let him

prove that he is the most popular person

in the city. Dmitry, a question specifically

for you: tomorrow, are you ready to join

this hunger strike? You personally?

I’ll wait to see how the rally goes, and then

we will make a joint decision, because

I was, I was ready to do it.

Alexei, are you ready to join this

hunger strike?

And when I was coming here, I said from the start

that I was not planning to join the

hunger strike. By the way, one of the

main reasons I came here was that

the well-known Dr. Liza (Elizaveta Glinka)

said that if I came, one

of these people would end the hunger strike. And he

really did end it. But I

spoke with Shein. I can see that

trying to persuade him is, first of all, pointless. And

second, as a lawyer, for example, I can tell you

here that if I were telling them

that, guys, this can be resolved in court,

this obviously political issue

of election fraud, that something could be won through litigation,

that would be a lie. It is impossible in the courts

to achieve anything. The courts will make whatever decision

they are told to make by the Kremlin. And what

decision is made in the Kremlin depends on

public protest, the level of tension, and

the situation we are creating here.

It seems to me that the price is too high.

Well, you decide

for yourself. I—I tell Shein and everyone else.

One second. And to those who, for medical reasons,

should end the hunger strike, I

say, like any normal person:

"Stop." But that is a personal decision. I

am not going to interfere by giving him advice on this

matter. He knows everything himself. He is an adult

person.

I see. Ilya, don’t you think this is

too great a sacrifice for politics?

If Oleg or one of his comrades

had called me in advance and asked my advice

on whether it was worth using this kind of

form of protest or not, I would have said no,

because, guys, your health

is far more important to us than all these Stolyarovs,

Zhilins, all these crooks and thieves. But

Will you personally join the hunger strike tomorrow?

Well, I don’t think so, I—I’m saying no,

people’s health matters more, but since they

have taken this desperate, desperate step,

this self-sacrificing decision, I do not

consider myself entitled to judge them. I do not think

I even have the moral right to

dissuade them or persuade them of anything

at all. These are courageous and brave people

who choose their own form of protest.

My task is only to express moral

support to them, to demonstrate

solidarity. That is exactly why I am here.

From here on, they will act exactly

as they think necessary.

Will you personally join the hunger strike?

Well, I do not think this is the right form

of protest.

I see. All right. Let’s start drawing

some conclusions. Yes, please. I just

wanted to go back a little to the starting point

from which, in fact,

these problems grew, because right now we are

getting lost in details, emotions, and

other things. Whether 50 people came out,

or 1,000 people—it does not matter right now

how many people came out yesterday and will come out

tomorrow. What matters is that I personally,

yes, went to the Central Election

Commission and, together with its staff, reviewed

personally, myself, that first batch, the first part

of the videos that were provided to Churov at

his request.

Churov did not select those videos to please anyone.

We already understood that, yes, we discussed it.

And at all seventeen polling stations

it was a one-hundred-percent match. After that

the mood at the Central Election

Commission changed sharply, and the release

of the remaining

video footage abruptly stopped.

Understood? And now we still have

one more video, and then we will begin drawing

some conclusions and will talk, after all, about

what tomorrow’s rally can change.

Let’s look at the screen. This is what

our camera crew managed to film

yesterday.

The whole city voted for our Shein

Oleg Vasilyevich, for our mayor. And

Stolyarov got through. Yes, maybe he is

not bad, but he is not the mayor. Our mayor is Shein.

He is definitely an impostor.

I am on hunger strike because I have no other

choice left in life. That is, I am

a nonpartisan person.

If we forgive all this now, then it will already, already

be meaningless to live. They stole our

victory in a dirty way. We are ready for new, fair

elections with any outcome. But the main thing is

that the elections be fair.

I’ve just arrived to support, uh,

those on hunger strike, to be here as long as needed.

So,

possibly to take part in the tent

camp. If it is necessary to stay here

overnight, you understand, to spend the night here until

the authorities, so to speak, make

the only correct decision, namely to call

a new election.

The issue is not that, well,

Shein won or did not win, and that this is

his personal grievance. The problem is that

the elections were simply unfair. If

he had won fairly, no one would have

no one would have

You’re watching Gosdep. Oleg, a direct question for you.

Are you really prepared to die just so that

the election results are annulled?

I would put it this way: a person’s ideals are,

probably, even more important than life itself,

because a person who has no

moral values in life is not a person, in

my view. And the issue here is not

the cancellation of the election, but what brings to the city

democracy and freedom. If this could

have been done in another way, I would not have gone on

hunger strike. I have always been the strongest

opponent of hunger strikes. But now I have

answered your question.

I am ready.

In my opinion, he answered the question.

Well then, I suggest, I then

suggest we talk and sum up our

program

by discussing what will happen tomorrow, this

rally. Please, could each of you

say briefly, in a kind of

rapid-fire format, what you expect from this rally?

Will it affect anything? Tomorrow’s

day. Let’s do that, yes, from both

sides, let each person speak.

Druzya said nothing.

I do not belong to any party. I do not

belong to any youth or non-youth

movement. I am the mother

of a four-month-old daughter, and a journalist. And I am, in

principle, an apolitical person. And I did not

interfere in this situation even on blogs

until

the insults began, including those directed at me. And

these were your, Oleg Vasilyevich, colleagues,

including those who are on hunger strike with you.

So much filth has never before been poured on the people of Astrakhan

like this.

I have not received a single apology.

Nothing but obscenities. Just filth from that side.

Let’s be fair.

And this is Mr. Yashin, if I am not mistaken.

I simply do not know, to be honest, who that is

.

He even—well, I’ll tell you honestly, I am

an ordinary resident of Astrakhan. Even today he

even today on the program kept

threatening people. He threatened Alexander, he threatened

the young woman. This is impossible. What will the

rally decide? In my view, the rally will decide

nothing. Two hundred people will come out for Shein,

and 5,000 will come out against Shein.

No, no, I just want to explain.

No,

I want to explain.

I want to explain that there are people of Astrakhan.

Please, all right, let’s, let’s

give them a chance to speak. There is

a fundamentally important point here.

I’m listening to you. Let me

Quiet. Come on now. As you can see, a very cultured

person