In the interview, Alexei Navalny spoke about his campaign trips to Russia’s regions, rallies in Murmansk and Yekaterinburg, and pressure on his campaign offices and supporters, including threats, attacks, and administrative harassment. He spoke out against political repression and the abuse of anti-extremism laws, and linked the rise in public aggression toward minorities and dissenters to poverty, corruption, and the authorities’ inability to address socioeconomic problems. Navalny also set out his views on education, the military, drug policy, religion, nationalism, cryptocurrencies, and digital voting, consistently criticizing the current system as corrupt, ineffective, and hostile to change.
Text version
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How and why did you end up in St. Petersburg? I
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came here to hold a rally
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and meet with my supporters. We
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opened a campaign headquarters here
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at an early stage of the campaign, and it is working quite
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effectively. At this second stage of the campaign,
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we are already holding meetings not just with
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volunteers, but large street rallies
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to which I invite everyone. Well, what do I mean by
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large?
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This is our second rally during this
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campaign tour.
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Yesterday we spoke in Murmansk, and
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the rally there went quite successfully. Today
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in Yekaterinburg there was a truly
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amazing rally. It is hard to say
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how many people were there. According to the estimates
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of the journalists who were there, it was
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probably one of the largest
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political rallies of recent years
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in Yekaterinburg.
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It was amazing. I love this city and often
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come here. I feel that I understand
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the people of Yekaterinburg. I have good
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relations with Mayor Yevgeny Roizman
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and support him however I can, and he
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supports me in return. So,
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today’s meeting was wonderful, and I
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think we achieved our goal.
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In general, when opening headquarters—specifically
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Navalny’s headquarters in St. Petersburg and in other places—there are
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problems. Here in Yekaterinburg, not really. Well,
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everywhere we opened headquarters at the
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first stage, some thugs would run after me
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throwing eggs and doing other things.
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At one point I was completely covered in brilliant green antiseptic (zelyonka, a common Russian antiseptic dye often used in attacks).
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Here specifically, I remember, it was very funny:
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wherever I went, two
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guys followed me carrying an American flag behind me
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so that I would appear to be walking against the backdrop of
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the American flag. And then they
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photographed it and posted those
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pictures somewhere, enjoying their clever
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political spin tactics.
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But there were no major problems. Still,
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after all,
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Yekaterinburg is notable for the fact that it has
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its own political culture, and
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despite the fact that the authorities do pressure
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the opposition, here they are usually less
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prone to falsification. Here they practically do not
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detain people during rallies, and there are very few
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arrests. In other words,
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Yekaterinburg, at least, still holds on
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as a city with a
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more or less democratic tradition.
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Actually, an acquaintance of mine tried to open
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a Navalny headquarters in a very small
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town—the town where he was born, in
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Shadrinsk. It has only 60,000 residents.
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He went to the local people there, and they told him
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that they would beat him up there, that crowds would come after him,
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that the Cossacks would deal with him personally
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—that was said to him directly, in so many words.
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In the end, he was unable to open the headquarters, although
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he did go around with Navalny badges and
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all that.
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These kinds of problems often arise in
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the regions. And in general, how often do Navalny’s
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supporters specifically encounter
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violence and this kind of problem? First of all,
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your friend is a wonderful person. We
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open what we call people’s headquarters
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when, in small towns, we do not have
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the money to pay for
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renting premises. People simply come to us
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and say: we have a space,
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let’s open a headquarters ourselves—a people’s headquarters.
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Most of the time, in 99
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percent of cases, all this talk about
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being beaten up is, of course, simply
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made up. That is how they try
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to intimidate people. But of course our
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campaign, because it is real, honest,
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and sincere—and they know that—
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we hold huge rallies. We
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do not pay anyone to attend. Today
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there was a rally here in support of
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the governor, and they were paying 1,000 rubles (about 1,000 RUB) for people to take part.
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And it is offensive and unpleasant for the authorities that
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people come to us for free because
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they support us.
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And they resort to violence. Literally
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yesterday—well, the information here, the reporting here,
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is constantly distorted. Look, I have just
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come from a rally in which
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obviously several thousand
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people took part, and the police said there were 1,400. People
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who were there just laugh.
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The authorities lie constantly. But as for violence,
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yes, that exists too. Just yesterday
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the head of our headquarters in Moscow, Nikolai
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Lyaskin, was simply ambushed
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and had his head smashed with an iron pipe.
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That is horrifying.
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It really is horrifying, and it happens in
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some regions in particular, though fortunately
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not very often.
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But of course they hate our
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campaign because, you see, we are the real thing.
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Here, people really do get their
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heads broken.
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They smash whatever they can and even set things on fire.
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Are you not afraid of meeting the same fate as Nemtsov (Boris Nemtsov, opposition politician assassinated in 2015)?
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And of what happened to him? If you are afraid of something
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in Russia, then you simply should not
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go into independent politics. But I am
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a normal person; I do have a sense
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of danger, and I have no particular desire
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to enjoy that feeling of danger. But
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I believe that the things I believe in,
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the things I am striving for, are more important.
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A person who is fighting, say, against
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property developers here in Yekaterinburg
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is in even greater danger.
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A person who works on human
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rights in Chechnya or Dagestan is
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in extreme danger altogether. I...
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Compared with those people, still very
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normal. In Dagestan recently there were
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major problems, even scandals
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connected with the fact that people there were being killed
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specifically LGBT people and minorities. What
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do you think about that? Because for the most part
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the media were shouting that none of it was true, that
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it was all lies. And what is your attitude toward LGBT people?
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Based on the data from those programs
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that is available, I certainly believe that
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such facts did occur. They denied it somewhere
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in pro-Kremlin media outlets and a couple of other state media sources,
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but the facts presented by independent
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sources show that during the
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"purges," killings were carried out—essentially
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executions of homosexuals. But this is an
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disgusting phenomenon: they were killing people
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simply because they had a different sexual
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orientation. Guys, I consider all people
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equal, and no one should be punished
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oppressed or discriminated against simply because
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they have
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a different faith or a different sexual
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orientation. Of course, there are certainly people
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with conservative views, religious
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people who may not like it. They
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can state their position, they can
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protest—fine, that is their right. But
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violence and murder—
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of course, the people involved in that
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must answer before the law. And in general,
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can this be linked
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—the oppression of certain social
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groups—with the economic
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situation in a country? That is, the poorer it is, the
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more oppression there is? It seems to me there is a direct
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correlation.
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Since the authorities cannot respond adequately,
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they cannot explain to you
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why wages have gone down,
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they cannot explain to a pensioner why
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the subsistence minimum is rising, prices are rising, but
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the pension is not increasing, and so they
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simply distract the public's attention
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by pretending there is some kind of offended
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outrage. Now across the country, in droves,
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there are people going around claiming they were offended on behalf of
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their Orthodox faith. On the other hand,
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there are also droves of those who think that
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Islam has been insulted; others say that
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some family values have been insulted, and so on.
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Really, where did all these
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religious people suddenly come from? Not long ago
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this was an atheist country, and now suddenly
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—just think about it. Of course they do this
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because they have nothing to say in answer to the question
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of why people in Russia are becoming
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poorer every day. I understand that this is exactly what
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it is connected with. First of all, we have
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the law on offending believers, and also a great many
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extremists have suddenly appeared
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who have emerged
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out of nowhere, and lately more and more of them keep
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appearing. Take me, for example:
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I am already listed as an extremist—very
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clear, just like a sniper and other extremists, apparently
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because I myself am a bit of an extremist in
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the eyes of these people. Well yes, indeed, and
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recently I was even added to the list of
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terrorists and extremists, and on that list
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there is a person who carried out the terrorist attack in
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Beslan (the 2004 school siege in North Ossetia). So essentially I am on the same list
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as those people, and there is not a single
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procedure according to which I could
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get off it. Do I even have any chance of getting
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out of there?
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You do have a chance to get out of there. That
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chance is tied, in general, to positive
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changes in the country. As long as these people remain in
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power, they will keep tightening and tightening everything,
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screwing down the screws—not even just tightening the screws;
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when we say "tightening the screws,"
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that usually implies some kind of, well,
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rational action, pressure
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on those who oppose you. What the authorities are doing now
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is simply chaotic
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mad movements. The main trend in Russia
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has become
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this kind of strange
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schizophrenic-looking conservatism,
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endless grievances,
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endless offense-taking. This trend
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is completely obvious.
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It has been operating for many years,
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this tendency dates directly from 2011, when in Moscow
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clear protests began. Yes, there was
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the Pussy Riot case, there were those first
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high-profile trials about insulting
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the feelings of believers; hooliganism was turned
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into, in quotation marks, a perfect singular case.
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Exactly right, it keeps growing constantly
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and it will keep growing. Back then, in 2011,
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everyone was shocked by Pussy Riot, but
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no one could then have imagined that people would be
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jailed for likes and reposts.
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Now this happens daily,
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weekly, and no one
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pays attention anymore. It will keep getting worse
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and worse; people will keep ending up on
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these extremist lists, and the only way to get off
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them is by changing the government in Russia
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because this clique sitting in
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the Kremlin cannot stay in power
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in any other way except by declaring
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everyone extremists. Because I was
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included on this list, I am now required
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to live on 10,000 rubles a month (about 100 euros / 110 US dollars). By law I am
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allowed to go to the bank in person
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I really sympathize with you.
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Would you be able to live on 10,000 a month, on
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10,000 a month?
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It is extremely difficult to live on that. Nevertheless,
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in Russia there are quite a lot of people who
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receive that amount or even less in
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the regions. But as I understand it,
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because of these regulations, they cannot
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open a bank account for you; you are prohibited
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from doing things that would allow it.
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but only 10,000 rubles (about $100), no bank cards
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no electronic accounts at all
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nothing
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Listen, I truly sympathize, I know
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that on these lists, alongside real
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terrorists, they just include everyone
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people charged under Article 282
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it absolutely poisons their lives, makes
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normal existence impossible. This stupidity, this
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idiocy, is a manifestation of the authorities' idiocy
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Even if I don't like what you did there
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you offended someone in a church, fine
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I understand
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but all of that deserves, I don't know,
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administrative proceedings, a fine
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but when a young person is put, for life,
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on a list and deprived of the ability
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to earn a living, deprived of the chance to
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live normally, and effectively treated as a criminal
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without really being a criminal—what is there to say
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Even politicians love sports, but not everyone
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knows that sports can also be a way to
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make money right from home, sitting at
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your computer, and all you need for that
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is this link in the description, because there you
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will find one of the most
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authoritative in Russia, in the entire
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Russian bookmaker market
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and on top of that, it's also my
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regular sponsor, and recently they have also
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started offering esports betting
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which I think is really cool. You can
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vote with your ruble for your favorite team
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in Dota and things like that
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So this video is a great reason to follow
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the link in the description and win money
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in the world
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Life on 10,000 rubles (about $100): so which is better after all
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Doshirak (a popular instant noodle brand), beef or chicken? I knew that
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out of all my many photos
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and there are a lot of them, some are great, heroic even
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on my profile, nobody cared about them
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the only one people cared about was the photo with
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Doshirak. It's probably my most popular
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photo right now. Back then I ate chicken flavor, but
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overall I prefer mushroom, of course. And you probably
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did too, when we were in pretrial detention (SIZO)
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we got into Doshirak
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I was more into instant mashed potatoes
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I don't like them, I mean, when you
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mix them up, they turn out kind of
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like sand or something, so I
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there, people would just dump in
10:59
seasoning and somehow survive on it, but
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still, in SIZO (pretrial detention)
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there's a more developed kind of
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fast-food culture, because people stay there
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for a long time. You spent a long time there; I spent three
11:08
months there, while in a special detention center
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when you end up there, I was there for a maximum of
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twenty-five days, and Doshirak is
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fine. Though it really is very
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tasty, but by the fourth day, when
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you eat it, you can literally feel the acid
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burning through your stomach. Of course it's
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a terrible, unhealthy thing. Well yes, when I was in
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SIZO, I lost about 10 kilograms (22 pounds), so
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it's a great way to
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do a lot of reading and lose a lot of weight at the same time
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You could start a beauty blog and talk
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about how you lost weight by being labeled an extremist
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especially since phones do sometimes circulate there
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Right now I'm basically sitting here without money
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in fiat currency, and I have to keep all my
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savings in bitcoin because I'm not allowed
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to use ordinary money
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the state has forbidden it, and I
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simply have no other choice left. I know that
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the Anti-Corruption Foundation
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receives a lot of bitcoin donations. In light of
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that, how do you feel about bitcoin, and in
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what way do you work with bitcoins?
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Yes, we collect them; that's our position
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Quite a small number of organizations collect
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bitcoins; we do. But if I'm not
12:07
mistaken, it's about 11 or 12
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percent of the total amount raised. Well, that's
12:13
substantial. We're happy that we started
12:14
working with bitcoin, but for us it's
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of course not decisive. I noticed
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a very interesting thing: all these
12:21
bitcoins that came into the account were
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as a rule cashed out very quickly
12:24
If all those bitcoins had been kept in the account
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then because of the rise in the exchange rate, the Navalny Foundation
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would now have 20 to 30 percent
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more money. Yes, but bitcoin also fell sharply recently
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very sharply, of course. Yes, we are
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working with it, but
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but we collect money in order
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to spend it right away. We have an election
12:41
campaign: whatever we receive, that's what we
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spend. So as soon as someone
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sends us bitcoin, we sell it; we don't wait
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for its price to rise. Volkov calculated
12:48
my campaign chief, that we lost a fairly
12:51
substantial amount. That is, if we
12:52
had kept those bitcoins and waited for a good
12:55
moment, we would have made much more
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But we don't have that option, nor do we have that
12:59
goal. We don't make money on bitcoin; we
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collect donations that way. I
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believe the state should leave
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cryptocurrency alone. Bitcoin is developing
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and thank God for that, and let it
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continue to develop perfectly well without the slightest
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attention from the Central Bank, the Finance Ministry, or anyone
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else. I don't understand why officials
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keep meddling in it
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I recently made a piece about cryptocurrencies
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blockchain, mining, and ran into the following
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problem: essentially
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it was even blocked on VKontakte, they wouldn't allow
13:24
it to be promoted. I got in touch with the press office
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we discussed it, and they allowed us
13:28
to advertise cryptocurrencies specifically
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because apparently that's what they decided there
13:31
right now—even Gref and Putin are involved there
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got carried away, I was a member, but at the same time all my
13:36
acquaintances who are blockchain specialists still
13:38
say you should work with a Western audience anyway
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because there’s more money there, and because
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there’s no risk there that all of this
13:42
will suddenly just be banned. Lugovoi (Andrei Lugovoi, a Russian politician linked to the Alexander Litvinenko poisoning case), who
13:45
brought polonium into the story, into
13:46
the ranks of blockchain experts, and for some reason
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Fedorenko, who is an expert in
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criminal law, and it’s not clear why all of this
13:53
all of this
13:53
counts as a panel of blockchain experts. What do you
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think—in short, does the future of
13:58
cryptocurrencies in Russia specifically have any future? I think that
14:01
as with any
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new technologies, IT technologies, with
14:07
new trends—they’ll talk about them a lot
14:10
and all of this in the Kremlin
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many people seem to think there is some kind of
14:16
silver bullet, some magical thing
14:19
called blockchain—some kind of blockchain, everyone now
14:21
is talking about it, it’s all very much
14:22
“let’s implement blockchain everywhere.” No one
14:25
understands what it is, but the discussion goes on endlessly
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they’ll allocate money, they’ll
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even create some kind of state corporation
14:32
for blockchain, all that money will be stolen, but
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no proper implementation will happen
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because, sadly, we haven’t seen
14:41
successful implementation in Russia of nanotechnology
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or any other technologies, because the essence
14:48
of this regime is, by definition, hostile
14:51
to anything new. It’s just that there are people sitting there, and
14:54
for them the technology is actually very simple:
14:57
you allocate a state contract, and from that
14:59
you skim off 30 percent, whereas
15:01
blockchain is, after all, a technology of
15:03
transparency. For example, blockchain would have allowed
15:06
us, in Rosreestr (Russia’s state property registry), to prove that the children of
15:10
Chaika (Yury Chaika, former Prosecutor General of Russia) falsified
15:12
registry extracts retroactively in the
15:14
records, if it had been based on
15:16
blockchain technology. That’s one small
15:18
reason why they will never
15:20
implement it, because it would not allow the Kremlin
15:23
to tamper with documents. So I’m afraid
15:26
that in Russia this won’t happen. What do you think of the idea
15:28
of a decentralized blockchain for
15:30
voting specifically? I am
15:33
a supporter of remote voting
15:35
using various technologies. A few years
15:37
ago I was in Estonia
15:38
and specialists there explained how
15:41
they introduced internet voting. It’s one
15:44
of the few countries where it actually
15:45
works. Even back then it was already possible
15:48
to verify it properly without
15:50
blockchain technology, and now it has become much
15:52
easier
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So yes, I’m an enthusiast for all of this. I
15:55
believe that, of course,
15:57
at the current stage of development, nothing
16:00
prevents us from using it for voting
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it would bring in far more voters
16:05
that is, people wouldn’t need to go to polling stations
16:07
and more people would vote. Since we’ve
16:10
started talking about voting and about
16:12
the already familiar issue of polling stations, how do you
16:14
assess your chances
16:15
of taking part in the 2018 election?
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I’m not a political strategist or a political scientist, I
16:20
don’t engage in that kind of analysis—how many
16:22
chances I have, whether it’s 25 or 28 percent
16:25
I’m a politician, I do politics in a fairly
16:27
straightforward way, and I see that there are people
16:29
who support me. I see that
16:31
there are huge numbers of people who
16:33
are against corruption, who support normal
16:36
development for Russia, who want
16:38
Russia to have at least some
16:40
prospects, who are unhappy with what is happening
16:42
who are unhappy that the same person has been sitting in the Kremlin
16:44
for 18 years, and that their views are not
16:47
represented in elections. That’s why I’m
16:49
traveling around cities—I came to Yekaterinburg
16:51
got up on stage, there were several thousand people there
16:54
I asked them to support me
16:56
and they did support me. So I will
16:59
keep traveling and working with public opinion
17:01
in order to force the Kremlin to put
17:03
my name on the ballot
17:04
and force them to let me take part in the election
17:07
I fully understand that they have absolutely no
17:08
desire to do that, because ours is
17:10
a real campaign. We call everything
17:13
by its proper name. I’m not afraid to name
17:16
names, I’m not afraid to expose
17:18
specific people and their corruption. All of that
17:20
is very unpleasant for them. Of course they would not
17:22
want to see me there—they would rather see
17:24
their nice, familiar Gennady Andreyevich
17:27
Zyuganov, Vladimir Volfovich
17:29
Zhirinovsky, and all the other old
17:32
trusted comrades. How do you feel about the fact that
17:35
a large part of your electorate
17:37
is specifically young people? Because
17:39
in your circle and among your supporters, young
17:41
people are the ones saying that Navalny
17:44
is 18-plus and trendy
17:46
I’m very happy that young people are
17:50
part of this movement. I really
17:52
like that. But I wouldn’t agree with your
17:54
assessment, because by definition your
17:56
social circle is made up of young people, and that’s great
17:59
that’s wonderful. I’m genuinely proud to have become
18:01
the kind of politician who has attracted the interest of
18:04
young people, who believe that I
18:05
represent their interests, and I will try
18:07
to continue representing their interests
18:09
But, for example, today at the rally
18:10
half the people were fairly mature
18:13
middle-aged and
18:16
elderly. When I took part in the
18:19
2013 Moscow mayoral election, we
18:20
even conducted a special analysis and
18:22
saw that, in my case, these were mainly
18:24
votes from pensioners—that is, to us
18:28
young people came too
18:29
probably first and foremost because
18:31
we use YouTube as a means
18:33
of communication. For us, YouTube is
18:35
extremely important. I really regret not
18:37
starting this earlier. If I had newspapers
18:40
or television at my disposal, I would
18:42
work more with older people. But
18:44
since I can record videos on
18:46
YouTube, and younger people watch them, that's
18:49
good. We will involve
18:52
and use young people so that
18:54
they, in turn, can persuade
18:56
their relatives—their mothers and grandmothers. I have
18:59
a question that is specifically of interest here
19:01
to young voters: what do you think about the current
19:03
state of education in Russia, the Unified State Exam (EGE), and
19:05
what will happen to it in the future if you become
19:07
president? It doesn't work. I believe
19:08
that the EGE system does not work. It is
19:10
basically fine overall, but simply for
19:14
an obvious, objective reason, it cannot
19:16
work. We have entire regions
19:18
in the North Caucasus
19:20
that are champions at gaming the system, and the nature of the game
19:23
is such that either everyone acts honestly, or if
19:26
one region acts dishonestly, it
19:28
renders the whole system meaningless—it's game theory,
19:30
essentially. Exactly right. So the
19:33
exam is generally a normal thing, but in
19:36
modern Russia it does not work. The exam
19:37
has not become a tool that would ensure
19:39
that everyone is equal—whether you're a school student from
19:43
Yekaterinburg, Moscow, or Makhachkala, you would have
19:47
equal chances of admission.
19:49
No well-connected sons or
19:52
daughters would push aside
19:55
a talented student. Unfortunately, this
19:57
doesn't work. Overall, in Russia, the situation
20:00
with education is monstrous. Look at our
20:02
universities—they no longer make it into the top 100 best
20:05
universities in the world. This is a catastrophic
20:08
situation. We see Chinese universities
20:10
occupying many places in the rankings, while Russian ones are simply
20:12
absent. Russia's education system is
20:15
underfunded; there is no money in it.
20:17
Our teachers, instead of teaching
20:21
their students, are endlessly filling out
20:23
papers—endless reporting for
20:26
all kinds of supervisory agencies.
20:28
This system is wrong, rotten, and
20:31
I repeat, it is first and foremost
20:31
underfunded. Russia must
20:33
increase spending on education by
20:35
at least 50 percent.
20:36
After school or after university, many people
20:39
end up in the army. As a pacifist, I
20:42
absolutely do not want to end up in the army.
20:46
I know that many people simply
20:49
want to buy their way out of all this, and
20:51
this obligation to serve in the army breeds
20:52
corruption.
20:53
Personally, I like the system they have in the United States:
20:55
a professional volunteer army, where if someone wants to serve, that
20:58
person goes and then receives
20:59
benefits and so on. What do you
21:01
think—should compulsory military
21:03
service in its current form in Russia be abolished? They
21:05
buy their way out of it—that is corruption first
21:08
and foremost. A conscript army is highly
21:10
inefficient and pointless. There is an interested
21:13
mafia-like lobby in the Ministry of Defense and
21:15
in local government bodies that
21:17
sit on draft boards and receive
21:20
money for helping people dodge service. Let's be honest:
21:22
in wealthy regions, very few people
21:25
go to serve in the army.
21:26
The draft from Moscow is extremely small. Why?
21:29
Because there is more money in Moscow. In Moscow, people simply
21:31
buy their way out. So the conscript army
21:33
has effectively turned into a tax on the poor.
21:35
If you don't have the money to buy your way out,
21:37
you go serve. This is a monstrous
21:41
and unjust system, and you are absolutely
21:44
right: we can see that modern armies
21:48
are more effective in their professional
21:50
form than in a conscript form. There is only one
21:52
conscript army that appears
21:54
effective, and that is Israel's. But Israel
21:56
is a special country that
21:58
has long been in a state
21:59
of near-constant war, so it cannot
22:02
be taken as an example. Of course, Russia should
22:04
move to a professional volunteer army.
22:05
It is better and more effective, and we can
22:08
afford it—Russia has enough money.
22:09
Let's move further along the life of an ordinary
22:12
Russian: after school, after the army, he
22:15
often ends up in prison. And you see,
22:18
the ordinary person feels...
22:21
Up to 90 percent of the people who were
22:24
locked up with me, whom I saw in the cell, as
22:26
everywhere, were imprisoned because of drugs.
22:28
Many of them were simply caught with
22:29
a stash—what was it, 7 grams
22:31
of marijuana or a couple of grams of ecstasy—and
22:33
that was it: they got around 10 years, because
22:35
everyone is now charged with distribution
22:37
instead of possession, of course.
22:39
If the question is what you think about
22:41
the decriminalization of light drugs,
22:43
because as things stand now,
22:45
20-year-old guys go in and come out 10 years later,
22:48
and you're using exactly the right word—
22:50
decriminalization. I am very often asked
22:52
about legalization
22:54
of drugs, legalization of marijuana. That
22:57
is impossible at this stage of society's
22:59
development. In fact, it has not happened anywhere—
23:01
not in the Netherlands, not in U.S. states
23:04
where it is permitted. It is not
23:06
legalized; it is decriminalized, meaning it
23:09
can be used. That is, one must understand
23:10
that drugs are evil. Of course I am against
23:13
drugs, but when we look at Russian
23:16
prisons,
23:16
they are packed with young fools who
23:21
are serving time under Article 228 (Russia's drug possession law),
23:22
and they are given monstrous sentences—as if for murder.
23:24
People don't usually get sentences that long, compared with what they get there for
23:26
a gram of hashish.
23:27
Yes, he was carrying a gram of hashish, and that is
23:30
an offense, a crime. This is something
23:32
the family should deal with, this is something that should
23:34
be handled in its own way. To lock him up for five
23:36
years is sheer madness. That's why I
23:39
think that, of course, perhaps the mayor of your
23:41
city will strongly condemn me for such
23:44
statements. After all, he is a well-known
23:45
public figure and categorically
23:48
opposes this. He believes people should be treated well
23:50
and that drug users should be treated, not
23:51
sent to prison for 10 years. We have somewhat different
23:54
views on this problem. I believe that yes,
23:56
decriminalization is necessary, because
23:57
society cannot defeat
24:01
drug addiction and the drug mafia by locking everyone up for
24:04
five years, and we can see this in Russia, for example.
24:06
They keep jailing everyone indiscriminately, and yet
24:10
still, in terms of sheer scale,
24:12
we rank first in the world for heroin use.
24:14
The drug mafia exists, which means this
24:16
obviously does not work. So we need to
24:19
adopt
24:21
the experience of developed Western countries, which
24:24
have shown that methadone, for example,
24:27
therapy is needed, and that decriminalization is needed
24:30
for small quantities that people obtain for
24:32
personal use; that there is no need to run after them; that
24:35
the police have a more important task,
24:37
namely, fighting large-scale wholesale
24:40
drug dealers, the real
24:42
drug mafia. Just catching some
24:44
student picking up a stash drop, well yes, you
24:46
got what is called a result,
24:47
you gave him five years — and who is better off because of
24:50
that?
24:50
He is in prison,
24:52
he will become a hardened criminal, and that's all.
24:54
I suggest we move on.
24:56
When I was there for a season, for the first time
24:58
for three months straight I watched television
25:00
because it was the only
25:02
source of information. It was a special kind of torture, yes.
25:04
Absolutely. Every day there were video
25:06
reports about how somewhere again
25:08
someone was detained, someone was fined,
25:10
someone was jailed for prostitution.
25:12
I don't understand that. Why, if a woman
25:15
takes money for this, is she then
25:19
somehow liable for it? After all, this is essentially just
25:21
a more simplified arrangement than what
25:22
happens in reality. And what do you think?
25:25
Specifically, I would not agree that this is
25:29
a simplified version of what happens in
25:31
reality. It is some completely
25:35
misogynistic assertion, but it has
25:37
of course, no relation — it has absolutely no
25:40
connection to reality. Prostitution is
25:44
certainly a negative phenomenon in our
25:47
society. And note that in
25:50
many countries there is punishment not for
25:53
selling sex, but for attempting
25:55
to use such services. And why
25:58
is it not like that in Russia? Because in Russia,
26:01
basically everything is broken, because in
26:02
Russia all these so-called massage parlors
26:05
are advertised in ordinary newspapers and
26:07
exist semi-legally. Why? Because
26:10
each of them is protected by
26:13
the local police precinct, and all these places
26:16
pay bribes to local police officers,
26:18
and they only get caught when someone needs
26:20
to stage some formal raid.
26:23
When the state, first and foremost, is dealing with
26:26
such a complex shadow sector as this,
26:30
and wants to regulate it, it should
26:32
focus, in my view,
26:34
on the medical aspect. In terms of
26:37
the number of HIV and AIDS cases, we are already overtaking
26:40
African countries. Recently we saw,
26:43
we heard the shocking news that here in
26:45
Yekaterinburg there is an AIDS epidemic. Therefore,
26:47
the state's primary task is
26:49
to make sure that this part of life,
26:52
which apparently will always exist, which is
26:54
negative but impossible to eliminate one hundred percent,
26:56
does not become even worse; to make sure that
26:58
they do not spread infection to one
27:00
another, that there are none of these
27:03
gangster practices, that these girls are not
27:05
killed or kidnapped there,
27:07
that they are not forced into slavery,
27:11
that they do not become drug addicts — in other
27:13
words,
27:14
at least make sure that this social
27:18
evil is not multiplied by everything
27:20
else. And from my point of view, that is
27:22
the state's task. But it does not
27:23
work, because right now for the
27:26
state machine this is simply off-the-books cash,
27:28
just bribes that they pay to
27:30
the police. Again, the problem is corruption.
27:32
Of course, I believe that in Russia,
27:35
if you dig into almost any problem, sooner or
27:37
later you end up at corruption. Let's move on to
27:39
other issues — for example, religion. Here in
27:42
St. Petersburg right now they are trying
27:43
to build a church on the water, even though there is already
27:45
a high density of churches there, and they want
27:48
to build another one, even bigger and even more expensive,
27:50
even grander, and people are organizing whole
27:51
pickets around the site to make sure
27:53
the builders cannot get through. So how do you determine
27:55
whether this church is needed? That is a question for the residents of
27:59
Yekaterinburg.
28:00
I am not one of them, and in that sense my
28:03
position here is simple. It is obvious that there is
28:06
public outrage: thousands of people
28:08
are taking to the streets, which means a large part
28:11
of society does not want this church. Therefore
28:13
I believe this issue could be
28:15
decided in a city referendum.
28:17
But the authorities are actively insisting on it because
28:19
that is how the authorities are structured, because first of all,
28:21
as we know, this church is being built by two
28:23
of your local oligarchs, who are tied to
28:27
The copper business—we understand perfectly well that
28:29
bribes were paid for this,
28:32
and this whole decision is being pushed through with their money.
28:35
If they want
28:37
to build a church, no problem. I flew here
28:39
by plane and saw that there is quite a lot of
28:41
space here where churches could be built. There is no need
28:44
for that
28:45
to fill in the city pond,
28:47
which is a local landmark.
28:49
I believe the question of the church should be decided
28:53
by the residents in a referendum. But the way
28:55
the authorities act, when they disperse
28:57
people, when they simply keep pressing
28:59
everyone to accept this church—this is
29:01
a disgusting situation. If you want to build
29:03
a church, you copper oligarchs, find a plot of land
29:06
that is not already some kind of
29:08
landmark, and put it there.
29:10
What is it, has the whole world narrowed down for you
29:12
to this city pond, that you want
29:14
to destroy it? They are simply brazen people who
29:16
have started to feel like masters of life.
29:18
They liked this spot, pointed
29:20
their finger and said: right here, in the center, we’ll put
29:22
up a monument to ourselves—and now they are trying to force
29:24
everyone into it. Is it hard to be
29:26
Orthodox in Russia, considering
29:28
the scandals that constantly flare up
29:30
around it? It’s not easy. I am a believer, an
29:33
Orthodox Christian, and
29:35
I do not feel that, as a believing
29:37
Orthodox Christian, I must show solidarity
29:40
with all these people who call themselves
29:42
Orthodox, with some madmen
29:45
who try to burn down a movie theater.
29:47
I do not consider any of them Christians. They are
29:49
pagans—people obsessed with certain
29:52
symbols, with material
29:55
things. But in essence this is paganism,
29:58
idol worship.
29:58
And idolatry, of course, has
30:01
nothing to do with the Christian faith.
30:03
It disgusts me to look at all these
30:05
former members of the Communist Party
30:07
of the Soviet Union,
30:08
who were atheists by office,
30:11
and now have instantly signed themselves up as
30:13
Orthodox believers. But they are liars and hypocrites. I
30:15
am not part of all that. I am a believer,
30:18
but that does not mean I have to support this filth, and
30:20
I do not think that just because I am a believer I
30:23
must support jailing people
30:24
for some likes and reposts. Is it easy for me to be
30:27
Orthodox? That’s a tricky question.
30:29
Have you ever used
30:30
psychoactive substances? No, no. Well, coffee—
30:36
okay, that was a trick question, because you probably
30:38
meant coffee. But coffee is a psychoactive
30:40
substance—a drug, from that point of view.
30:42
Then kefir would count too, or something else. Yes,
30:44
of course, the definition of drugs is
30:45
so complicated that a great many things can be called
30:47
drugs—coffee included. But I would say
30:50
the situation with drugs is actually
30:53
quite simple. Coming back to all this, in our country
30:55
the state and the police create
30:58
hysteria around marijuana.
31:00
They imprison people for small
31:03
amounts of hashish and so on. Let me say again:
31:07
drugs are evil, unquestionably.
31:10
But alcohol—
31:12
specifically vodka, which is sold in
31:14
every store and at every feast—is more dangerous
31:16
than heroin in essence. Well, not more dangerous
31:18
than heroin, but it is definitely more dangerous than
31:20
marijuana or hashish. It is definitely more dangerous
31:24
than these plant-based
31:25
drugs. And this is not just my
31:28
claim—this is established scientific data:
31:31
alcohol is a more dangerous
31:34
drug, one that causes more
31:37
addiction. And indeed, every
31:40
single day we read in the news about people
31:42
being stabbed in kitchens with kitchen
31:44
knives because people simply,
31:46
forgive me, got drunk and then
31:47
started stabbing each other. And we do not hear about
31:49
someone smoking marijuana and then
31:51
running around with a knife because they had some kind of
31:54
delirious episode and killed all their relatives.
31:56
In that sense,
31:57
once again, the hypocrisy of our state
31:59
lies in the fact that it imposes
32:01
alcoholization—it simply imposes it, and
32:04
keeps alcohol prices low, or holds them
32:06
at such a low level,
32:07
while at the same time attacking other kinds of
32:11
drugs that are like alcohol, just of a
32:13
different origin. I saw photos online
32:16
of you at the Russian March (an annual Russian nationalist demonstration).
32:19
The photos are quite old, but they
32:22
are completely normal. I
32:25
went to the Russian March several times. I
32:27
believe I was right to do so. I do not think
32:29
that Russian nationalism must necessarily be
32:31
some frightening or scary
32:33
ideology. I see nothing wrong with
32:36
people who hold
32:37
nationalist views, provided they
32:39
do not resort to violence, provided they are not
32:41
some kind of national chauvinists.
32:42
Why get nervous about such moderate views? Well,
32:44
when someone says, “Let’s go out
32:46
and start cutting up everyone with curly
32:48
hair,” then of course that person should be treated as a criminal.
32:50
According to our state’s view, I am a
32:52
nationalist.
32:52
That is despite the fact that I am half Tatar
32:55
and half Russian, despite the fact that I
32:56
constantly say that I am a cosmopolitan. They have
32:58
labeled me a nationalist, and therefore an
32:59
extremist. I really do not see
33:01
any problem with someone being
33:03
a Russian nationalist—there are plenty of such people,
33:05
by the way. What we are seeing here is
33:08
civic nationalism, and that is a proper,
33:10
normal thing: love for one’s own people and
33:13
thanks to Tatar nationalists
33:15
the Tatar language is being preserved as Bashkir
33:17
thanks to nationalists, the Bashkir language is being preserved
33:19
language is one of the most important things; nationalism is
33:22
the essence of any people, and I am not in the least bit
33:25
ashamed that I take part in Russian
33:27
marches. I cannot, of course, I do not
33:29
solidarize with any such
33:31
misanthropic things, but I do not
33:33
see anything wrong with these
33:35
events taking place, and I spent a lot of time
33:37
trying to create a certain
33:40
political alliance between democrats
33:42
and liberals and a modern kind of
33:45
Russian nationalists. And if you
33:47
look at the slogans of Russian
33:50
nationalists in 2011–2012, they
33:53
essentially sound like human-rights slogans. That is exactly
33:55
why, by the way, the nationalists
33:57
were crushed, and
33:59
organizationally and politically as well. The Kremlin
34:00
hates them for their slogans, because it
34:04
needs a kind of imperial
34:05
nationalism, the sort that says: we will seize all countries
34:07
and our people will sit in Riga—well, all that
34:11
sort of thing—and that kind of intimidating nationalism
34:14
that is directed outward.
34:15
We need a nationalism that will
34:18
set as its goals the preservation,
34:21
growth, and flourishing of the Russian people,
34:24
which does not contradict the development and prosperity
34:27
of any other people on the territory of the
34:29
Russian Federation.
34:29
That is the kind of nationalism we need, and that kind of
34:31
nationalism the Kremlin considers dangerous. How do you
34:33
specifically feel, then, about
34:35
cosmopolitanism? Well, cosmopolitanism, broadly speaking,
34:39
is essentially the view that
34:43
all these nations, all these
34:46
countries, are unnecessary, and that in fact
34:48
there is only humanity, and I do not impose on anyone that I am Russian.
34:49
I am Russian.
34:52
I feel Russian; I like
34:54
feeling Russian and speaking
34:56
the Russian language, understanding that it is my
34:58
native language. And at that Russian March (a nationalist demonstration in Russia),
34:59
there are some people marching there
35:01
who are deeply concerned with the fact that they are Russian and
35:03
think about it constantly, thinking about, say,
35:06
the mission of the Russian people. Fine, I like that.
35:08
But there are also some people who
35:10
believe there should be no borders,
35:12
no nations, nothing at all. I do not impose anything; for me
35:17
that is neither good nor bad.
35:20
As long as people, within the framework of their
35:24
views, do not start trampling on other people's
35:28
views and do not start oppressing anyone
35:30
else, I absolutely do not care.
35:34
If Russian marches are not being broken up with batons,
35:37
then I have no complaints at all.
35:39
I have nothing against cosmopolitans. Agreed. I have
35:42
a couple of questions specifically about YouTube.
35:44
How much do you earn from the YouTube partner program
35:46
or from ads in general?
35:49
We do not do any advertising at all. You must admit,
35:51
it would be strange if I said,
35:52
"Putin is a thief, crooks belong in prison, Medvedev (former Russian president and prime minister)
35:55
should be jailed—buy your ticket on Aviasales." That
35:57
would be strange. So we do not run advertising
35:59
that
36:00
at all, because
36:02
after all, we have political content.
36:03
We think about that constantly,
36:04
all the time.
36:05
Costs are rising; we have a live-streaming channel,
36:07
we spend money, and we
36:10
understand that
36:11
both on my main channel and on the
36:14
Navalny Live channel, we could
36:15
be making serious money, but for now
36:18
we are still a little hesitant
36:19
to go that route. But we think about it constantly. When
36:23
you become president
36:24
—I say that optimistically—will you
36:27
continue making videos on YouTube?
36:31
For a presidential candidate, YouTube
36:36
is television. There will not be any president
36:39
who, in my view, should consider it important for the state to own
36:41
or control television, by the way. But when
36:44
I become president, I will try to be
36:46
a normal president who is busy
36:48
with work, and despite all my love for YouTube,
36:50
a president should not have time
36:52
to record some videos—apart from a New Year's address,
36:54
perhaps. I think that
36:58
since it is a huge audience, and it
37:00
is growing and developing, simply
37:03
the president should use YouTube
37:05
as a communication channel. But look
37:07
at Obama, at Trump; go to
37:09
Trump's campaign website—he had all
37:10
his platform points presented as short
37:12
video clips. So of course I will
37:14
use them, but it is unlikely that I
37:17
will be able to record those video blogs with
37:19
pictures and funny jokes.
37:21
And that whole era will probably be over, but
37:25
we will do many other right things.
37:27
Today I have these two
37:29
wonderful gifts here.
37:31
There is a book about Bitcoin, which I will give away, and we
37:35
also have a fishing rod, which I will give to subscribers.
37:37
The book about Bitcoin will go to
37:39
Gasparyan. And the fishing rod will go
37:41
to one of you, those who are watching this
37:42
video on YouTube. And one very interesting point:
37:46
could you sign this fishing rod today?
37:47
Someone will get the fishing rod with an autograph from
37:49
Navalny. With pleasure. All right, guys,
37:51
the person who gets it will be someone who takes part
37:53
in some contest, and the winner will be the person
37:55
who reposts this video using the link in
37:57
the description, and after a week I will choose
37:59
the winner and send it to someone by mail with
38:02
Navalny's autograph. Take part in
38:03
the contest. Well then, thank you very much.
38:06
This was the Bitcoin Class team.
38:10
That is all for today. Thank you, Lucy.
38:12
big hose, thanks for the invitation