Alexei Navalny interviewed by blogger Stalingulag

Hi everyone. I'm Alexander Gorbunov,

StalinGulag. And today I invited

someone to talk and ride around the streets of Moscow with me,

a person who can compete with me

in a championship of sitting still

in one place, because he spends time in

all kinds of special detention centers

more often than you probably spend time on

the internet.

Okay, I'm stuck. Just don't drop

me.

If I break the state-issued wheelchair,

the one they give out.

Okay, right now I feel like I'm about to fall

backward.

Careful, don't rush, don't rush.

Oh,

okay, yeah, not that high. Come on,

just a little more.

Comrade Senior Lieutenant,

h-how are you going to get back down?

Please welcome Alexei Navalny.

Hi. There are some very suspicious people around

our office. Great.

So. Well, introduce yourself—they've brought up a vehicle

for you, yes, a car. Well, as you've already

understood from the broken door, we're in

the FBK office. Tell us about these famous

searches you had here.

Yes, indeed, as you can see,

we basically have, instead of a door handle,

just this huge hole now.

Ah, and

this is a new development by Skolkovo

scientists.

Exactly. It's a kind of nano-handle—you can't

see it, but you can open the door. The thing is,

searches are happening constantly right now,

and this office has been subjected several times

to this kind of raider-style

attack, so we decided to wait.

The door is expensive, so let them calm down

first, let things quiet down a bit,

and then we'll replace the door. It always

looks very funny. This whole

space gets filled with these people in

black, wearing black caps. And over there

the office staff are standing around shifting

from foot to foot because the restroom

is on this side, and these guys

block everything here and won't let anyone through, including

to the restroom.

So, we can give some advice to young

people. If for some reason you suddenly

decide to go into politics in Russia,

don't install entrance doors at all,

because that's just an expense. You need to be

open people and expect that at any moment

people in masks will come

to see you. You'll save money that way.

Yes, absolutely. Okay, now let's see whether

the two of us can fit into the elevator or not.

Well, let's see how this

works—call it.

One second. Okay, wait.

Yeah. Yeah. So,

listen, this is kind of our traditional first question already.

I ask: where is it more comfortable to sit—

in this chair here,

which the caring state gives to people

who need it, or on the bunk beds

that the state, with no less care,

[laughter] provides for you?

There you go. You know, I'll tell you honestly:

once the jokes started going in that direction, I—

when I was preparing, I wanted to... Hold on,

one second, let me turn around.

Mm-hmm.

Okay,

and that's it. Done.

Didn't make it

back to the button.

I was wondering whether or not to google

jokes about wheelchair users. I decided

not to.

We wholeheartedly welcome any kind of

jokes at all, and we believe that

if I'd known you were going to start with that joke,

I would have googled them after all. And we

believe that people shouldn't be punished,

persecuted, or taken offense at for words,

because words are not actions.

So, are you getting the hang of it yet?

Well, I still keep mixing up which wheel I need to turn

to go right or

left, but apparently the main thing is fitting through

the door.

Thanks. We just barge right in.

So you do fit.

If I turn sideways, maybe.

Let me get situated.

Wait.

No, stop. That was a mistake. There, I think

I'm in the corner.

No, here, like this. Wait.

No,

no,

no, no, we don't fit. So, no.

So I'll wait for you downstairs then.

Yeah, let's meet at the bottom.

[snorts]

Well, go ahead, somebody, sure.

People are genuinely afraid of me. There were people standing

by the elevator just now, and in horror they simply

parted when they thought you were going

to ask them for some favor or

donations.

No, I think they were genuinely

scared. Really scared.

Thank you.

Okay.

See, we're going along and it turns out there are no

barriers, no obstacles at all. Turns out

Moscow really has improved.

Yeah,

it's fantastic. But now we're about to leave this

beautiful business center and end up on a

beautiful Moscow street. And one that,

By the way, literally this year, in

last year it underwent a major renovation,

they spent 100 million billion rubles on it. And

now we're going to test it. Here's a revolving

door, which, by the way, is also not exactly an obvious

thing to figure out what to do with.

Well, let's take a risk. I'll go

first after all.

Go on, go on.

As they say,

come on, risk is a noble thing.

Yeah, especially since they say you're the future of Russia.

If anything happens, I'll remember you as a hero.

You'll get some kind of posthumous award or something.

Okay, I'm stuck.

That's it,

Navalny is stuck.

See, you're an experienced guy, and I

got stuck.

Well, you see, you have to know how

to adapt. So, basically, we've

arrived already. You see what an accessible

environment this is. Before us is a whole variety of staircases.

[music] The rules on our show are as follows:

you can, of course, stand up,

walk down calmly, but for that we'll

fine you. Or you can make use of

the help of our kind people, who

you can ask

I can't ask the film crew.

Yes, of course. Just look how many

wonderful people are around. I think

someone will help you,

if you turn around. Look there,

see that guy standing there in white headphones.

That very Prigozhin troll (a supporter or operative linked to Yevgeny Prigozhin),

the one who's following me around and filming. Now

we'll test his humanity. Yeah.

Maybe you'll help him get down,

Alexei?

Help me get down

the stairs.

Help me get down

the stairs.

No, well, if you'd tossed your cigarette butt... No, well, you

need one more person. Guys,

can someone help?

Okay, just don't drop me. Careful.

Yes, yes, yes. Don't drop him.

Use both hands, please. No,

guys, stay seated, stay seated, stay seated. Take him.

Wait. Here, Sasha, grab it.

This is pretty scary.

Something's breaking, I think. No.

That's it. Thank you so much. And just like that,

you see, we even made a Prigozhin guy

work for us.

See, they're good for something after all.

So, look, here's the plan. You and I

are now going to go and see how

Moscow has been beautified.

Yeah,

we'll go there on the MCC (Moscow Central Circle), where they poured

a huge amount of money. And it's

considered super innovative.

It's the very latest public

transport system built in Moscow.

Yeah, let's see whether it's suitable for people

who get around in wheel

chairs. So, how does it feel?

So far, it's actually fine.

I just really don't understand: if I

had come out here at 9:00 p.m. and there

simply weren't any people around.

Well, I'll tell you how it was for me. When I

came to Moscow, I stayed with

my relatives on the outskirts

of Moscow, and of course there was no

accessible environment there at all. And we came

home in the evening. It wasn't late,

it was around 8:00 p.m. And I

probably waited an hour and a half or two,

until, uh, someone came out and helped me

get upstairs. Yes, exactly. In

fact, you need, just like I do

right now, at least two strong guys

at a minimum.

Absolutely, absolutely, yes. I'm saying,

you spend a lot of time in

detention centers, right?

Yes. And in general, how would you assess

prison culture—within public consciousness, in

society—it holds such a serious and

important place. And how does it find

reflection in politics, and not...

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Okay,

okay. A little

slope there. Well, I'd say that it

still has an absolutely decisive

influence. And all these various

prison-code notions,

they're absolutely everywhere. Well, they are,

first of all, very clearly articulated in

attitudes toward any minorities. I mean,

what is there to say about homosexuals,

right? But more broadly, this whole

idea that we mustn't

give way, mustn't bend, must dominate others—that's

exactly what's repeated endlessly on

television.

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And how did your time in

special detention centers personally affect you? Did it somehow

change the way you look at life?

First of all, it is always very interesting

to watch how these nerdy kids from

respectable families instantly absorb

prison culture. People are detained

at rallies and brought in. Uh-huh.

Just yesterday they were first-year students at

some institute, studying French,

all cultured and

bespectacled. And after three days it is already "cell,"

"bunk," all that slang and the whole

culture — it all gets absorbed

very quickly. But in fact, that is also

because you need it there.

All those prison rules are there.

One second. Wait,

let us try to get a run-up now.

Got it.

So why did you not get me one of those cool wheelchairs with

a motor?

No, listen, because that exact

wheelchair you are in [music]

is the one the state provides to

people who need it. So it is

the basic model that everyone

gets. And we want you specifically

to experience — and our guests to experience — what

the average

disabled person in Russia experiences.

I actually looked up how many

wheelchair users there are [music]

in Russia. According to the Ministry of Health,

the latest figure is 320,000 people.

That is basically a city the size of Kaluga (a Russian regional city).

Ah, and each of them gets a wheelchair like this, right?

Yes. Yes, this is the basic model. And

an important detail is that a wheelchair like this, uh,

at least this is how it used to be, and I

do not think much has changed. [music]

you can only get once every seven

years. So, seven years, right? You get it,

and if it breaks, then of course

it is pretty obvious that after two years

it will fall apart.

Listen, it will fall apart even sooner. It

You said there are a lot of disabled people,

but do you see them on the street,

run into them [music]

somewhere around the city?

In Russia, no. In Russia, no. And actually

I have thought about this, but it is impossible

to get out onto the street. It is simply impossible

to get outside at all. Even if

your building has an elevator, you might

make it to the ground floor if you can get into

the elevator. But it is not even clear how you would

get outside the entrance.

Exactly, [music] exactly. The main thing is

how to get down from the first floor.

Uh-huh. Thank you.

If you open [music] your Instagram, it

creates the impression of

an absolutely perfect person. I mean,

you have a beautiful wife, smart children, you

eat healthy, [music] you exercise and

you read books, and when you

see such a perfect person, you

think, well, there must be some

flaw. Maybe he strangles cats at

night.

To continue your story: he is a perfect

person. He has a wife, children. On Instagram

everything looks great. He has one

drawback: he lies a lot on Instagram.

Well, actually, Instagram is there

so that we can post

photos where we look beautiful,

smart, or somehow special.

No, but, roughly speaking, you do not have any

photos there of yourself, uh, drunk [music]

singing Leps (Grigory Leps, a popular Russian singer), or, well, relaxing

in some other way.

And I think, well, maybe not very

drunk, but photos of me singing Leps definitely

exist somewhere, because at

our FBK (Anti-Corruption Foundation) we do have parties. And when was the

last time you were really drunk — not

just had a drink, but completely wasted,

like really

No, well, probably only back in

my student days was the last time I was

that drunk. I mean, like

all young people, naturally, I somehow

got access to alcohol [music] and got drunk.

But

then later, well, after a certain age,

first of all, being very drunk

stops being interesting. You drink in order

to feel a certain lift, to

Everybody drinks alcohol. And that's fine. Well,

and then, once again, you and I are being

filmed. There goes some bum filming

me. And you know, in my situation,

these guys don't exactly force me

to be a perfect person, but

they do keep me very disciplined.

How do you deal with that? I mean,

you're constantly under

scrutiny, and it's constantly

psychologically weighing on you. Obviously, no matter how

hard you try to fully relax,

you just can't. And what do you think,

for example, about light

drugs, about weed? Let's put it this way: in

the Beautiful Russia of the Future (a slogan meaning an ideal future Russia), will there be

legalization?

In the Beautiful Russia of the Future (a slogan meaning an ideal future Russia), there will be

decriminalization. That's what we need most of all,

you see, because weed is actually only fully

legalized in relatively few places.

The main problem with weed in Russia

right now is that—and let me say right away

that I am, of course, against

drugs and against drug use—

drugs are drugs, they're evil. But

when some 19-year-old guy

gets caught with three grams of marijuana

and is sent to prison for five years, that's just insane

that's madness. And what we need to do now

is create a new drug policy under which

we won't destroy huge numbers of

people's lives over some

single small mistake. In that sense, three

grams of marijuana are, of course,

a lesser social evil than five years in prison for

those three grams of marijuana. But this is, this is

an international trend. I mean, for

personal use, you can

grow a plant at home and, if you like, use it.

Medical marijuana exists too.

And we should simply follow

modern European and global

trends.

And where is that line? I mean, should we

fully integrate into Europe

and the Western world, or, as people here like

to say,

right?

Yes.

Thank you very much, everyone. Hi, Switzerland.

I can't quite make out what to do, what can be

done.

All right. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Thank you, man.

Thanksies.

Thank you.

There it is.

Just to be clear, we didn't bring this person here.

We really did just run into him.

Yes, absolutely. Yes. Well, he'll get 500 rubles later, of course

(about $5 / €4.5). Per diem.

Uh, should we fully integrate into

Europe, or preserve some kind of

distinct identity?

Well, listen, let me ask you this. Has

Switzerland fully integrated into

Europe? What about the UK? And France—

what exactly has France lost by

being part of Europe?

One of our viewers from

the Urals, for example, will answer you: "But in France,

uh, same-sex couples can marry, and they can adopt

children." So is that what Russia needs?

Our answer to the viewer from the Urals is that

this question should be decided in the Urals.

If he's in Perm Krai or in

Sverdlovsk Oblast, we'll hold a

referendum there. He can come to that referendum

and vote against same-sex

marriage. And whatever the Urals decide, that's how it

should be. Oh, now there are two of them already.

Did reinforcements arrive or what? Perfect,

you can carry me back and forth now.

Or three? Is he with them too?

Are you on your own?

Just by chance. I'm actually from Rostov

Region. A deputy.

A deputy from Rostov Region.

So, on September 8, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation won there. I

ran.

Congratulations.

So there's no ramp, which means you'll

have to hop forward or ask

for help. I can't really get through here either.

We'll put that Rostov deputy

to work now. Hang on.

There we go,

all right, managed it. Though I might

need some help over there.

Hang on a second.

And what about here?

Okay, we need to do something so I don't get

crushed while I'm making my move.

Maybe, maybe help from

the regions will arrive.

Wait, let me try to do it myself after all.

Try backing up. It might be easier

that way. Yes,

yes, exactly. I saw Lebedev do it

backward. Okay,

there we go,

they're honking over there—they want to run us over.

Ah, damn it.

Yeah, it's spinning.

Deputy, help out.

This is help from the regions.

Help from the regions.

Yes, the regions.

Thanks, brother.

Right.

Uh-huh. Thank you.

Okay, one more second. What's that?

What is it? What's that, an Audi?

No, thank you very much. Thank you very much.

That's a donation. That's a donation,

I get it. Thanks a lot, man. No,

seriously, thank you. Thanks a lot.

Let me shake your hand. Thank you. Thanks.

Sure. Well, listen, actually this

speaks to people's responsiveness, but it also

speaks, of course, to the monstrous

way disabled people are perceived in general.

Yes, because disabled people in Russia are

absolutely poor. They're not just

poor, they are not—

Sorry. And does that happen often?

Yes, very often. Of course,

you can. I mean,

we understand that a disability pension

is something like 12,000, 13,000, 14,000, 15,000 rubles a month (roughly $130–$165), right? So

what exactly am I supposed to do with that money?

I have to rent an apartment, I have to

pay assistants, I have to pay for,

I have to buy a car if I want

to get anywhere, because

public transportation is completely not

adapted. So everything has to fit into

those 16,000 rubles (about $175). By the way, how much

does your life in Moscow cost? In general,

how much does it cost to live in Moscow?

Renting an apartment is a big part of my

budget. Actually, this is the life

of a typical Muscovite, it seems to me, and

definitely of a very typical employee of the

Anti-Corruption Foundation.

Once I did an experiment, just went around and

asked: "Do you live in your own apartment or

do you rent?" And everyone rents an apartment or

a room, I think, except for one

person.

So this, by the way, speaks to the claim

that Moscow has it too good. Well, there is

this view in the regions that

Muscovites are swimming in money. When I

came to Moscow, I was struck by the

fact that in Moscow, well, most

people, if they're not somehow connected

to the authorities or benefiting in some other way,

simply live paycheck to paycheck.

Well, look, let's be honest about it.

For an ordinary Muscovite, there is no such thing as

"having it too good," because

the cost of living is just enormous. But at the

same time, of course, even if you compare

a Muscovite who lives paycheck to

paycheck and spends most of their money

on an apartment or a room, with

residents of, I don't know, Altai,

they're still simply incomparable things.

But why is protest activity so low in the regions?

I mean, shouldn't it be

the opposite? Things are worse there, and people

should be trying to change things somehow,

to have an impact. And Shiyes, and Novosibirsk, and

Yekaterinburg with that church, with St. Catherine's

Cathedral—when I was doing, right now I'm

just getting carried away and going off on a tangent,

when we were organizing those rallies, the "He's Not Dimon to You"

protest—there was a rally in Makhachkala,

organized by some people I don't even

know at all, and about

200 people came out. Despite the fact that in

Dagestan, it seems to me, it's genuinely

dangerous to take part in things like that.

Of course, just like in any other

region.

But overall, I definitely

agree with you: protest activity, with the

exception of some regions, is lower.

People simply don't believe that it's possible to live

better. They've never seen anything

resembling a normal life, and they're already

just in despair. It's like,

you know, we've never lived well, so there's no point

starting now. Right.

Whoa. Oh, wait. I shouldn't have

done that.

Okay, got it.

What, are we supposed to drive through the grass? I mean,

there's definitely no way we're getting through here, that's

out of the question.

Moscow is getting nicer, sure,

getting nicer. This little park here has really

been improved,

right before our eyes. Yeah,

let's go back.

And I looked into the repairs. Not repairs, actually—

the renovation, the reconstruction of this

park. They spent several hundred

million rubles on this whole

section.

Well, I'm sure someone ended up with

a wonderful little park somewhere out on

Rublyovka (an ultra-wealthy area outside Moscow),

yeah. Someone got a park built at their dacha.

A really nice and actually very convenient one.

Very convenient.

Tell me, where did you start? I mean, it feels

especially for the younger

generation as if Alexei Navalny has

always been there. But was there ever a moment

when you woke up and realized you didn't like

what was happening in the country?

How did it happen?

There wasn't one single moment. I'm a lawyer, after all. And

actually, what brought me into, uh, into this, into what

I do, into all this activity, was

the Russian courts. When you

go to court once and you've thought through

all your arguments, you understand the law

of your country, and now you're going to

win brilliantly. And like in

American movies, you've found some

key point, and now you're going to say it all to the judge

and he'll bang the gavel. A bumbling judge, right?

But instead there's this bumbling judge sitting there, and he

couldn't care less. He doesn't even

listen to you. He didn't take a single one of your

documents, he doesn't give a damn about anything, and

he just says, basically, denied. And you

think, well okay, a glitch, and the judge

is an idiot. [music] But then you go

to appeal, and then another judge—

not bumbling this time, or some other one—the second,

third, twenty-[music]-fifth judge, and

you understand that this system is built in such a way

that justice cannot be achieved within it.

Justice. [music] And you came up against

this system and realized that it cannot

be, you know, partially improved.

It has to be completely changed,

specifically through political means. And so

that is why I decided to go into politics.

I...

Don't you want to buy yourself a little cake,

or

something like that? Let's take a look.

It seems to me that buying company shares is

much easier than buying things here.

I mean, I know how to buy shares, but I still

haven't figured out how you can

shop in a universal way in

Russian stores.

So please move back, because

I can only do it with a running start.

Well, if it's like this

right now,

listen, you've got it good—you have a lot of

supporters, that is, people

who recognize you on the street, come up to you, and

help. But what should people do if

no one knows them?

So it came out as,

what should people do whom no one

knows? Well, should they all just ask around?

Guys, please help—give me a push

please.

Whoa, careful. Thank you very much. So, here

I'll probably still need your

help here.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Got it,

got it. Thank you very much.

Listen, I won't be able to get in there, so

you'll have to manage there somehow

without me.

What should I buy you?

Whatever you think is best.

We could buy a cake and throw it at the

Prigozhin people (supporters or employees linked to Yevgeny Prigozhin),

as an option. Though that would be a waste. Better to feed them. You

Russians are kind people after all.

No, really, we can buy pastries and actually

give them to these Pri—oh, there they are, those

goons.

Could you help me? Could you give me a hand,

please?

Let's get some *kartoshka* pastries (a Russian chocolate cake shaped like a potato).

So this is how we'll do

everything. And here, of course,

we've arrived.

Okay, I need—come on.

And the Prigozhin guy

where is he, by the way?

There. He's coming over to me. I have personal...

Just carefully

tilt it. No, no, no. Tilt it from the back,

so that my front wheels can go up there.

Come on.

Okay,

listen, you broke the whee—

you broke the state-issued

wheelchair they give out.

All right.

There they are, Prigozhin's trolls, damn it. And

they went and broke the wheelchair.

You eat too much.

It's not that I eat too much—it's that you,

Prigozhin, feed people too poorly.

Come on, help your comrade.

Careful,

come on.

Well, you see, they are of some use

after all.

Yeah, absolutely. Come on, now we need to

lift it up a bit. Like that. There.

Come on.

Careful, careful.

Well, give them a little shove.

Thank you very much. I bought you some pastries.

Take them, take them.

Thank you.

Listen, look how nicely you've

got yourself set up. I have to pay salaries

to my assistants so that people help me,

but these ones do everything for Prigozhin for free. See,

they walk around filming. If we end up with some

missing footage, we'll just take their

video.

And they still say you're not an FSB (Russian security service) agent. So

turns out everything has been exposed.

So the Prigozhin connection has been exposed, it turns out. You

too,

Alexei, may I shake your hand?

Thank you very much.

For you...

Thank you very much. Thank you.

[shouting]

Okay, going downhill here, we should be able to

get down just fine. Okay,

yes.

Okay, wait a second. This wheel is somehow

designed in a tricky way. For some reason it

keeps turning

almost all the way around.

Oh,

there we go.

Okay, now I'll...

Okay, that's it, I think. Okay.

You've got a cool wheelchair. How much did yours

cost?

More than 100,000 rubles (about over $1,000, depending on the exchange rate).

And how much does mine cost? If, as you say,

they give it to you for seven years,

right?

If mine has already broken—these guys were carrying me

and now it's already cracking all over.

Obviously, it will break in

half a year at most.

We bought it on Avito (a Russian classifieds site) for 3,800 rubles

on Avito. So that's why

And when I bought shares, as a lawyer I read the law

on joint-stock companies. It says there,

If you're a shareholder, you can go to

Gazprom and get any

documentation about the company, or you can

go to Transneft. I bought a share in

Transneft, came to Transneft,

and said, "Guys, in your report

you showed that you spent

hundreds of millions of dollars on

charity."

I'd like to see the documents showing what

you spent it on, because there is no trace of this

charity." Not a damn thing.

Explain it to me—maybe you bought

wheelchairs or did something else.

What did Transneft do? Did they show me

the documents? Not a damn thing. They told me to get lost

and then declared me a foreign

agent and a spy. But I went to court and

once again I was absolutely, 100% right. They are

all 100% crooks and thieves. And

public opinion is on my side. And

everything is obvious to everyone, but somehow I

lost. They won. I got angry and

kept hammering away at them and started

working, working, working.

Yeah.

Whoa.

That's it. You okay? Fine.

Okay, I'm kind of stuck here, but I think

I'm starting to get the hang of it now

in this sort of thing.

Then I'll cover for you here. For now.

Alright.

Ah, got it.

Okay, I think I'm about to fall

backward.

Okay. And

whoa, whoa. Okay. Wait, [music] hold on.

No, no, don't touch me. I'm not

going to lose to this sport. Let me try

to do it myself somehow.

Okay, Alexei, he's stuck, stuck.

Don't help me, I probably can't do it alone. Actually,

I do need help.

How many points are you taking off for that?

No, none. You did fall, after all,

so that doesn't count. For that, we'll

take a point away from Moscow City Hall.

Do you ever have moments of

apathy, in the sense that, well, you do everything

and it feels like you're just

finally getting to some kind of

result, and then they change the laws?

I don't feel apathy—anger, yes.

I mean, do I really get

that furious? Yes. But as for

apathy—no. I'm a person from the real world,

from real life. I understand that the

people we're at war with are

some of the richest people on Earth.

Not only are they rich, they also have

enormous power. They can

control

people's fates and lives. They are not going to give up that

power just like that. And they are

dangerous. I understand that this is a kind of

war and resistance

that may go on for quite a long time.

The main problem in our country—one of

them, of course, because there are many—is that we

lack something like an institution of

reputation. A person can do whatever

they want and know that no one will

hold them accountable for this or that action.

The institution of reputation will never

work until those who

disregard their reputation and

the very idea of reputation start getting

questions from everyone else. As for me,

people constantly call me out over things

that I said

10 or 15 years ago, because

all of my work has been connected to

the internet. I wrote a blog, I made

videos. Everything I said and did

was recorded and documented. And that

is very important. It disciplines

politicians. It makes them

answer for their words. And we should,

of course, call on the broader public

to hold politicians accountable.

By the way, Sobchak—why did she get

only 2%, given her level of

media visibility? Practically everyone in

our country knows who she is. So what? Everyone knows Chikatilo (a notorious Soviet serial killer),

too. So what? Did you vote for

her?

No, I didn't go to the election.

Okay, so now if I start

falling backward with my arms again, then now

I should do it into a puddle.

That'll get more views. Yeah,

it'll get more views. Yeah,

I'll lean into it. I'm experienced in this

Whoa. Okay.

There.

Nobody voted for her because

that was the Presidential Administration's

plan. They understood that here was a

politician no one would ever

vote for, except maybe

some crazy people or people doing it

as a joke. That's why she was in the

election.

So that means Putin hadn't become so

unbearable that people were ready to replace him

with Sobchak. At that moment, no.

I don't know what Putin would have to do.

Even if he ate a few children, people still

wouldn't replace him with

Sobchak, because, uh, I don't know, Sobchak

probably eats children for breakfast,

figuratively speaking. Ah, so here we are

standing in what is supposedly the most modern, in terms of

transport infrastructure,

place

there is. All the technology is here, here, uh,

Sergei Semyonovich (Sergei Sobyanin, Moscow's mayor), in essence, this is his whole

the Department of Transport, Public Utilities, and everything

else.

I want to address Sergei Semyonovich (a respectful way of addressing Sergey Sobyanin, the Moscow mayor),

if not you personally, then I invite you to come for a ride and

try getting through these

ramps yourself. Or send one of your

deputy mayor or, well,

some other deputy, and we'll try with

him to get onto these ramps or

come down them. Maybe you should try? I

will,

because I’m not even going to try

to push ahead, because this will never

end.

Okay, well, obviously here you just have to hold on to these

things.

Hop.

Okay. Okay.

Got it. Woohoo.

Checkpoint one passed.

On to the next one now.

Well, that was the first one.

Okay, there’s

a second one.

Okay, okay, okay. Easy. The main thing is not to

fall.

[snorts]

Listen, to manage this and get up

like this, you have to run every day and

work out, like you do.

Without that,

honestly. Or have an absolute

need to. I mean, this is just

simply

not possible. No matter how badly I

needed to, I wouldn’t be able to do this.

Absolutely. No, honestly, I

really doubt it. I looked it up: in our country, among people under 30,

the number of disabled people is over

a million, but I think that

maybe some of them could do

this, but definitely not most.

Okay, whew,

there’s more up there? Damn, this is really

an intense workout—CrossFit, I’d even

say. I hope this is the last flight.

Or is there more? There is.

Two more.

Two more.

Let’s keep going.

Yeah, damn. Okay, I still need to get up here.

Okay, somehow...

whoa.

Whoa.

Oh, Semyonych.

Oh, Semyonych.

I’d really like to say a few things to whoever

designed

and built this.

You can pass along a couple of choice words

right now. We don’t have censorship here.

You can say whatever

Well, we were just discussing issues of

reputation and the fact that on the internet everything

gets recorded.

Yeah. If I say everything I think right now

about Sobyanin, then that profanity-filled tirade

will be the main thing that

Google shows about me

for many years to come. My hands...

But now at least I’ll be able to

roll down here. Nice.

There. See, this is a good ramp here.

That’s a nice little bonus.

It’s like a little relaxation zone.

Yeah,

that’s the reward.

And from here it all goes downhill. I’ll

probably make it straight through. No, I didn’t.

No, don’t open it for me. Let me try,

I’ll do it myself.

He wants to do it himself.

I want to do it myself.

Uh-huh. Thank you very much. No, no, thank you.

It’s all fine. Thank you.

[shouts]

Alright then, shall we head to the metro?

Let’s go to the metro, but there is an elevator here already.

Yes, there is an elevator here, but only at one

of the stations.

Take care.

See you.

The irony is incredible. I came out of

this elevator and immediately ended up at the police station.

Hey, man, where have you lured me?

Brought me, I mean.

Well, that’s how these elevators work. That’s it. Bye.

What do you think about these Moscow, uh,

changes that are turning Moscow into

this kind of pedestrian city? I mean, a city where

for nine months of the year it’s basically winter, uh,

and where

being out on the streets is encouraged in every possible way.

Well, all of this comes from a mistaken

understanding—a wrong,

strange, warped version of Moscow

urbanism that has made it its

main idea that we have to crush

drivers. And when drivers

have it bad enough, they’ll all switch to

the metro or bicycles. Moscow is not

an average European city.

Moscow is a monster. It has 15 million

people living in it, drawn in from all

over the country. For nine months of the year it has

terrible weather. It’s too big,

too dense, so, uh,

it’s not Brussels. Trying to turn

Moscow into a small European city

is simply impossible. Besides, there is

for example a very strongly developed

dacha culture here. All pensioners have a

dacha (a country house or garden plot). And forgive me, but you can’t get to your dacha by

bicycle.

And what would you say to people who

say, “Sure, they steal, they skim money off

all this ‘beautification’ of Moscow, but at least

they’re still getting something done.” In the regions, they don’t even have that.

No. Those are the most clueless people of all.

In my experience, the very worst are those

people because of whom we live badly—they

say two things. “Yes, they steal, but”

“they give something to others too, they get some things done.” And

their second phrase goes like this: “Well,”

“these ones have already stolen enough, but if new people come,”

“they’ll steal too.” Those are the two most awful and

harmful phrases for our country. Because

again, our country’s experience

shows that, first of all, they never

steal “enough,”

and second, they don’t do a damn thing.

Moscow has a budget of 2 trillion rubles.

Moscow could simply live the life

of a magnificent, ultra-rich city with

excellent healthcare,

education, infrastructure, and everything

else. But instead, they shove things like

Gorky Park and a few

spruced-up public spaces in our faces. “Look,”

“we planted trees on Tverskaya Street,” and

they say, “Be happy, rejoice,”

“what is it you don’t like?” It’s really like in

the film *Kin-dza-dza!* (a famous Soviet sci-fi satire). “Rejoice.” And that is

absolutely outrageous, because we

shouldn’t be grateful just because we were given

a handout. We should be proud of a city

that actually matches its

2-trillion-ruble budget.

Well, you yourself said that people

are afraid that those who come next

will steal too. How do we make it so that

people stop stealing?

So that one day people come to power who

won’t steal. That’s all. In fact,

what Russia really needs is for

there finally to be a government, people in

power, a president, a prime minister—

someone, anyone, who won’t steal themselves and

will fight corruption.

But you can’t know that until they’ve actually

taken office, can you?

That’s why they have to be changed, that’s why

we have to replace those about whom we already

know that they steal. That’s all.

There’s no other solution here.

Only political competition,

freedom of the media, and independent courts can

make it possible to defeat corruption. Nothing

else will. Okay, attention.

Attention.

We need to somehow force our way in there.

We won’t be able to get in here, look.

Yeah, then let’s try the next one.

Let’s go. And here’s the next one—for disabled people.

What the hell? How is this for

disabled people? I can’t get in here.

Why is this for disabled people? It’s absolutely

unclear.

All right then, carry me in, my friends.

Just a second, just a second.

Come on, come on, come on.

Get the second one.

Listen, I think you’re going to finish off this wheelchair

today.

Well, this is what they call doors for

disabled people, right? But it’s completely

impossible to get through them.

These are called doors for disabled people.

It’s just impossible to get in, and if

you try— Hello.

Excuse me, are you kind of the

person in charge here,

right?

This is a door for disabled people, isn’t it?

That’s right.

But you can neither get into it nor

out through it. You can see for yourself.

At that moment I was following procedure; we had

a train departure, and it turned out that

Uh-huh. No, I’m not blaming you personally.

You’re supposed to help a disabled person if they

come up. Look, now we’ll

arrive, and you’ll be able to roll me out

by yourself.

Yes, I’ll unfold the ramp.

Oh, so your ramp folds out? Got

it.

Right, they’ve sent security to chase us away.

Hello.

We’re advertising

the Moscow Ring Road. Convenient

exits.

Yes.

So look, on foot this route takes you

about seven minutes

or so, right?

And we spent at least half an hour getting here,

right? Well, exactly.

So if this were, say, in

January, we would’ve frozen. We’d

have just turned to ice somewhere. I think

that actually in January, in

most of the places where I managed, with difficulty,

to get through, I definitely would not have

been able to pass at all.

And where are your Prigozhin trolls

helpers?

They’re around here somewhere. Where are they? Over there,

standing there, holding onto the handle.

And their fare is paid for.

What expenses do they reimburse for you? Do they

feed you?

Exactly. And the metro fare too. Well,

you see, Prigozhin (Yevgeny Prigozhin, a Russian businessman tied to state contracts) only on

school contracts, on contracts for

school meals, I think, steals no less

than 20 billion rubles there. So he can definitely

afford to keep not just two people

next to me, but 22.

We should ask them to

I understand that yours is the second-oldest profession,

but you really are making people’s lives harder.

The people’s eye.

The people’s eye. Yes. The second-oldest profession.

All right, let me help you— Which way are we going out?

Which side are we exiting? Yes.

Uh-huh. Let me move aside.

There’s practically a whole special operation going on here.

They shooed people away so they wouldn’t come

over here.

Mind the

gap. Next station:

platform on the right. Okay, let’s head to

the passage to Sportivnaya metro station.

Great. Thank you.

Hello.

So, well, you see how complicated all this is.

Fantastic,

right?

But actually, you’re absolutely right

about how inefficient it is, of course.

They could make an electric ramp that

slides out,

that you can open with a button [music]

and then board. Instead,

they use special staff, and they’re

involved in all this, creating so much

inconvenience for other passengers.

They actually also

delay the train. I mean,

if

And also, look, notice this:

[music] you and I were waiting,

and when our train came, the staff member wasn’t

there. So next time,

if we want to get somewhere,

and there’s no staff at that moment, we

miss our station and do another

loop. And that way we could keep traveling

forever. And by the way, this is a

historic moment. This is only my second time

ever in the metro, because the first time I

went down into the metro was when I first

came to Moscow. And I almost fell off

that escalator. They grabbed me from here,

and that was my first

and last time. This is my second time in

the Moscow metro. A historic moment.

Alexander is in the metro for the second time thanks to

Alexei Navalny. Vote. Smart

Voting (Navalny’s tactical voting campaign). Register on our

website.

Let’s imagine this hypothetical situation:

tomorrow you get a call from the Presidential Administration

and some official

invites you to a meeting with Putin, where he

says to you: “Uh, Alexei Anatolyevich,

I’ve made a decision:

I want to appoint you as my successor, but on

one condition.”

You give the same guarantees that I gave

Yeltsin: that all the assets

of the people close to me remain in

their hands. What would you say to that?”

Uh,

I’d say: read out the whole list. If he

wants guarantees for

himself and his family, I’d say, “Yes.” But

if he wants guarantees for Medvedev,

the Rotenbergs, Timchenko, Sechin, and everyone

else, then that simply makes no

sense. I become president. The next day Sechin

ends up under

investigation, and fairly soon after that

he ends up on the [music]

defendant’s bench.

Rosneft starts paying normal

taxes. And with those normal tax revenues,

we build ramps everywhere. That’s the only way this

works. And it does work, and it will

work perfectly.

Alright, let’s do it.

It does seem kind of narrow.

Okay, I’ll go along the

Go ahead.

Like this. No,

if you don’t hold it, it won’t work. Okay,

can they get through? Yes.

Yes. Well, I made it through. But this wheelchair

definitely won’t have anything left of it

in a few months. You said once every

7 years.

7 years. Yes. Yes, once every 7 years. Uh, and how are you

going to get down? Let’s ask your

assistants

from Prigozhin. It’ll probably break now

if I go like this.

Alexei Navalny is about to break the wheelchair

for us,

so to speak. Before Navalny showed up,

everything was fine. There was a wheelchair.

Navalny stole the fastener. There’s a

screw missing here, and before me Navalny was sitting

there. Navalny—something’s been wrong for me with

this wheel from the very beginning. And it

just keeps veering off here. See, look,

see how it keeps pulling that way all the time?

Yes, there are roads being made, Navalny,

there’s a smooth road—maybe this is your plan

actually, to make me turn here

and break my neck here and that’s it. Guys, help me with

this—can you carry me? It’s gone off somewhere.

I need a few people here,

just

guys,

yeah, better take it and hand it to someone.

Careful, careful.

Got it?

Got it. There.

If you feel it’s too heavy,

set it down.

Careful, don’t rush, don’t rush.

Maybe take a break? Oh, thank you.

Alright. Okay,

stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop, stop.

Let’s take a break. Are you sure you can do it alone?

Yes.

Just a little more.

Let’s go.

Thank you so much. Come on, come on, man.

Thank you.

So, how does weightlessness feel?

No, weightlessness is great. I mean,

if there are helpful people around, they will

carry it. But

it’s a bit wider here, so I

think I can do it.

Sorry.

Oh,

that happens too.

Want to give me a push? Go ahead. What?

[music]

Push me along. All right, go ahead

just not too fast.

Listen, turns out you’re a cheater.

What?

You’re a cheater. [clears throat]

I’m not a cheater, I just use the opportunities

that are there, you know? You’re

basically running on the people’s love.

I’m running on the people’s love. Yes. What’s your

name?

Thank you so much, Irina.

All right, I think you’re about to

take advantage of the kindness of Russian people once again.

Listen, I think we’ll have to

call once again on the help of our friends,

Prigozhin’s trolls (a sarcastic reference to pro-Kremlin online agitators). Where are they?

Come on.

And where’s your friend?

He left.

He left.

You won’t be able to carry me by yourself.

Young man.

Young man, can you help?

You take one side, he takes the other.

Just carefully

you need to support it from underneath, because these parts here,

if you lift by the handles, they’ll just

come off.

No, lower, grab lower. Low—

lower, lower, lower. Grab it.

If you feel tired, let go. Don’t

drop it. That’s important. Let go slowly,

or there won’t be anyone left to take pictures with afterward.

All right, no need to lift it that high.

What? Okay, wait, don’t rush.

Lift it a little.

Come on, just a little bit.

Sorry, can I hold onto you?

If you feel like you can’t manage it,

say so.

It’s not you. I’m just not so sure about him.

A little more

set it down. [music] That’s it, no way. Come on,

there’s just a little left.

What, did you abandon me on the last

steps?

Alexei, are you alive?

Thank you so much. They seem to have

broken my wheel. Ali, that’s the brake,

probably. That is the brake, right? Or did they

bend it? They bent it.

They bent it.

Exactly. Yes. All right, all right, I fixed it.

Now Prigozhin owes... [inaudible/profane fragment]

[laughter]

No way in hell. You’re not getting through here. Guys,

please help me.

All right, I need one more person. Who’s

the second one?

Thank you. Much appreciated. Thank you very much.

Come on, come on, come on.

Hold on, hold on. Okay. Looks like

we made it up, right?

We made it up, right?

Thank you very much.

[music]

All right, pose.

All right, sorry, buddy, I need you to

help me one more time. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

all right, that’s it,

thank you,

thank you.

And by the way, the police are saying, we, we

came out and [music] they’re meeting us. Well,

looks like they’re here for you,

Comrade Senior Lieutenant,

Lieutenant,

hello. What’s going on here?

No, what’s going on with you?

That’s what I want to ask you. Why is something not

right at the station?

And what exactly isn’t right here?

We’re inspecting what’s going on here.

Then tell me what exactly is not

in order at the station.

Listen, are they asking you for documents?

I’m asking for documents. Hello. What,

documents for the wheelchair? Do you think it’s sto—

that it’s stolen?

Why are you stopping her? I’m simply asking you,

what’s going on here?

Nothing’s going on. I’m just riding along and

that’s it.

Are you filming a report or what?

Can you explain something to me? Here you have

a camera bigger than the one on my

These are just curious people filming how

Alexander and I are moving through the metro station.

If you could escort us to the elevator so we can

get out of here.

There’s no elevator, we have an escalator. We’ll escort you.

We’ll take you there.

Let’s go.

Maybe you could help?

Will you help?

I expected the officers from the Interior Ministry unit for

the metro to provide this kind of

heartfelt help—maybe give me a push,

roll me along a bit. Well, there is this thing here.

Sure, of course, just not, not

fast, not fast, [music] not fast, don’t

rush. He won’t be able to keep up with us

afterward. I don’t even know where you’re roll—roll

me off to. [music]

Right now, straight to the

station office. You’ve got quite the escort. There’s nobody

to help you.

Cold-hearted people.

Harsh people, for sure.

All our hope is in the police.

You can only find kindness in the police. In

the Russian police. Just please don't send me flying onto

the escalator at full speed, please.

What? Some beggars I get,

you know, come rushing in so fast I can't even

keep up.

Thanks for the comparison. Very flattering for

people who are disabled just like you, so

to speak.

Well, great. I asked her [music]

to give me a hand. That's what it's

called,

right? Arrive at the platform like

a boss. You made quite an epic entrance. Such an

empty escalator. An empty escalator.

So, listen, why did the police leave you

on the escalator and not help

you? Ah,

well, you see, they said, "I'm like

a beggar, not a real disabled person."

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Uh-huh. Thank you.

[music]

So, we have a question from one of our viewers

from Moscow named Mikhail. He

asks: "Will there be lustration too?"

There will be lustration. Without lustration, nothing

will work. We've simply seen it from

experience.

Right now we can't even debate

whether lustration is good or bad, because

we have historical experience

that tells us lustration is necessary,

and until we see at least some

form of lustration—that is,

the removal from power of people

who are implicated in crimes,

who are implicated in all this crap—we

will never live normally. The main thing

is not to let those carrying out lustration be

the ones who have come to power. I mean,

politicians must not be allowed, the president

must not be allowed to run the lustration

commission, because, well, today he's

a good guy—for example, me.

[snorts] And then he decides to

lustrate those he doesn't like,

and then even his own

viewer Mikhail from Moscow, saying:

"I don't much like Mikhail. He's got

some kind of haircut, glasses. I'll

lustrate him too."

Whoa, damn, there's also such a

step here that I could've gone crashing down.

Careful.

Okay, I've got my back here. Yeah,

let's

make sure you've got support. Come on. Disabled

mutual aid.

Come on, come on.

Push,

come on, come on.

Now that's solidarity. Yeah. Not just among

journalists. Well

did you see that woman come up and

say, "They beat him up so badly they did this to him".

Yeah. I mean, it's funny, but she's a good

woman. And actually, people really do

think that in Russia

the cops can beat someone so badly

that they'll end up in a wheelchair. And

that's because it really does happen.

Listen, with this kind of militant

stance of yours—you said, answering my

question, that once you come in, everyone will end up

behind bars right away.

No, no, no, no, not everyone. You said,

what, Sechin? No, I was saying that

they would be under investigation, and then on

the defendants' bench. Well, then probably

behind bars

is what you mean, right? So they understand

that they have nothing left to lose, and then there's

no point in trying to negotiate, and

the situation reaches a dead end.

Well, what is there to negotiate with him about?

Well, at least everything would stay as

it is, but at the same time they would no longer

interfere in affairs any further.

And do you believe that's possible? Well, that's

the thing—it's [music]

simply impossible. There's nothing

to negotiate there. They seized

political power, their children seized

economic power, they are all

state bankers.

Above them there is a man who, with a snap

of his fingers, can take everything from them. So

they too are living in some kind of

constant fear, or is that not the case?

Well, first of all, I don't think they are in

constant fear. Second, they

understand that this man is the boss. Well,

it's like the head of the mafia. You can be

unhappy with the mafia boss, the chief

thief there, but you understand that your

wealth and your position are

provided by him. He provides them, he

appoints you as the local enforcer, and what they fear is not

the Beautiful Russia of the Future, where there is

law and justice, where simply, well,

you can't steal, you can't seize

newspapers, you can't break up rallies, you can't

rig elections. That's what

they're afraid of. Sooner or later,

the pressure of normal, honest people

will lead to them being

removed. This will happen as a result of

elections, it will happen as a result of

[music] mass protests in the streets

or as a result of strikes. Right now

doctors across the country are beginning

to quit their jobs. And they have made

an entire country poor and, most importantly,

devoid of any future.

Thank you for coming, riding around with

us, and seeing Moscow. Tell me, so

Now you're a tall man, and you...

have now seen Moscow, uh, from probably about

a meter and a half—yeah, about 1.5 meters (roughly 5 feet), no more than a meter from

that kind of distance. So, what can you

say about Moscow now? Moscow is

a difficult city for a huge number of

people. Uh, I understood that, of course,

intellectually. I knew how hard it is for people

with disabilities, but I didn't

expect Moscow to be quite this

difficult a city. [music] Here, you have to

not only have some kind of physical

strength. Second, you have to

have, uh, well, a certain kind of

assertiveness. You constantly have to

ask someone: "Hey, carry me over

there, and you carry me over here, and here

help me out." And [music] besides that,

you simply need nerves of

steel, because, of course,

this is

Moscow [music]—a city for the patient,

if they don't have legs.

Well, let's wish our viewers

to take care of their legs, and those who can't, [music]

not to lose heart, but to hang in there a little. As

they say, Alexei found out for himself—everything

will be fine, you just need to be patient and

rehabilitate.

In the Beautiful Russia of the Future (a political slogan about a better future Russia), we'll rig you up with

some awesome bionic legs, and you'll

be running.

We have a tradition. Every guest on

our show signs the backrest

or any other spot that you

like, on the [music] wheelchair—leaves

some kind of personal mark. And after

the season is over, we'll sell this wheelchair at

a charity auction and [music]

do something useful. Either

we'll give someone a good wheelchair, or

we'll build a ramp somewhere. Anyway,

our viewers will decide that. [music]

What should we give you now? A marker.

A marker.

But you've got a marker in your pocket.

How do you

... [laughter]

call that, anyway?

Who on your film crew works

for the FSB (Russia's security service)? This is a search.

It says here, "Tyoma was here," and basically my

plan was to cross out "Tyoma" and write

"Navalny"

but I won't cross it out, I'll just

add my signature: "And Navalny."

What's today's date?

Today is the second.

Zero two—the second. The tenth month. Yes,

as we can see, Tyoma's handwriting is better.

[laughter]

Same design, though.

Thank you.

Alright. Okay, I'm giving the marker back.

Our contest has come to an end. The winners

are announced in the description of this video. Thanks

to everyone for participating.