Our problem is that we've somehow
grown used to corruption. Our level of
tolerance toward it has already
dropped, because, yes, we read
the newspapers every morning: yes, a billion was stolen,
yes, and then we move on to the
culture section. In other words, it seems like no one is
even affected anymore by descriptions of these monstrous
schemes, but they affect me. I
read this, and after reading it I don't just say:
"Those bastards should be shot
for that." I don't stop
there. I sit down and spend 10 minutes
writing to the Prosecutor General's Office
(Russia's top prosecutorial authority). Prosecutor General,
such-and-such newspaper has published
information containing
evidence of a crime having been committed.
We ask that this be reviewed in accordance with the established procedure
and that I be informed. Ninety-nine percent of my cases
began with this simple letter. And in that
sense, anyone can simply tomorrow
pick up that newspaper and, if they are
a shareholder in the company, start a case. If they are not,
they can buy a share on principle and
start the case. In the case of the Cyprus
VTB bank, and with RSB, it was all based on
a publication in the newspaper Vedomosti.
Tankred's investigation into Gazprom was also
a publication in Vedomosti. So
a significant portion of the materials I
receive are simply completely open
sources from the mass media.
Then, in the course of checking all this, I
try to find some additional
material. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
If we're speaking specifically about
the VTB case and my proceedings against VTB,
a significant portion of the materials I
received came from people—former
and current employees of VTB Bank—
which has tens of thousands of staff,
and naturally, 80% of them
are not crooks. A VTB bank employee
is driven ten times crazier by this corruption
than an ordinary person who
reads about it in the newspaper, because he
knows how it is done. And maybe
he is even servicing the interests of that
crook who is stealing something like 100
million. And so that person feels far more
emotion about it and is ready
to support me. And what I offer
are mechanisms and procedures that are fairly
simple, basic: to file an appeal
together with me through the online public reception office,
where he can do it together with me. Well,
as for the question of whether I have put any of these
crooks in prison, unfortunately I can answer:
"No, no one has gone to jail yet." I am sure that
sooner or later it will happen, but even
the process itself has value. Against Gazprom
I have initiated several criminal cases, right?
But in most cases, well, what happens is this
back-and-forth: the police refuse
to open a criminal case. I get their
decision overturned in 90% of cases, fairly
successfully, through the courts or the prosecutor's office,
and then it starts all over again. Unfortunately, under
our laws, this can
drag on indefinitely. Right now we are trying,
we are working on moving some of these
proceedings abroad. All these companies
are listed, for example, on
the London Stock Exchange. That means they
are required to meet certain standards of
corporate governance. Yes, if in
that same VTB people are stealing, and the audit
committee, headed by a foreigner,
Warnig, knows that theft is taking place—and he does
know, because I write him official
letters—if he has not initiated an official
investigation, then under the standards of
UK corporate governance
he too is committing violations. And
of course, it is another matter that conducting proceedings
abroad is quite expensive and
difficult, but nevertheless we are looking for
ways to test
these mechanisms. I do not believe that
nothing can be changed. I am absolutely
certain that it can be changed. And I am
absolutely certain that I, and people like me, will change it.
I am 100% sure of that. I do not see
any monolith of power. Yes, they
are capable, of course, of crushing, imprisoning,
destroying, bankrupting any
person, any company, or any
dozen companies, yes, but overall this is
a fairly fragmented, amorphous
community of people who have simply
ended up in power for now and are
tearing apart those oil
and gas revenues. They may be united
by some common motivation, but
there is no monolith. That is why the task
for me and people like me is to create points of
pressure. They can withstand one point of
pressure, two, 32, but 132 points
they will not be able to withstand. Even I
sometimes win court cases against this government.
People who operate on nothing but empty
slogans. There are absolutely tons of them
right now—more than enough,
far more than are needed. So I'd rather
stick to my paperwork. But everyone,
everyone understands what I do. If there's an obvious
crook, I write about him. If there's an obvious
crime, I describe it. My work is
clear, and anyone can
join in. There are people
who say, "Yes, we don't like
what's happening now, but under Yeltsin
it was even worse," or "What's the alternative?" and so
on. Well, unfortunately, very
simply put, the people who were trusted,
who carried out reforms, whom people
followed, and who promised a better life,
unfortunately, for the most part
turned out to be greedy crooks. That,
naturally, planted
a tremendous sense of disappointment in all of us. And
we still feel the consequences to this day. But
even so, almost everyone understands
that everything happening
now is wrong and has to
come to an end. Our bourgeoisie is made up of the same
old Komsomol people (former members of the Soviet Communist youth organization). Well, if I mean
the top tier of that bourgeoisie, they
live in a perfectly comfortable
compromise. They delegated political power to the security apparatus/state system,
and in return received
economic rights. All our
regional elites, who are also generally
unhappy with what's happening, nevertheless
live in a system where they
provide political cover for all of
this. They simply rig elections, and
in return they're allowed to steal
without limit. As for Putin, this is
a conscious choice, and it's the only
way of governing the country that he
can afford. He rules, he
controls the country not through fear and not through
some, uh, mysterious security men
or shadowy enforcers who
support him. Those security people would
support anyone who gives them
money. He allows the elites to enrich themselves:
take, grab, make money, and so on,
but give me this political
stability. Entire regions of the country
are not under control. Who can say
that there is real state authority now in Chechnya,
Dagestan, or Ingushetia? Those are essentially
territories where there is no federal
authority, no laws at all. I mean,
if police officers and FSB officers are being killed there
every day, if not a single
lawyer in the country can travel to a
Chechen court in order to handle a
case because they're simply afraid.
So in Chechen courts, absolutely anything
can happen. So what we were told at the
beginning—that yes, through
administrative rent-seeking, we had at least ensured
a governable country—now it is becoming
obvious that this is not true. The country is not governable.
The only thing that has been
ensured is portraits. Yes, in
every crook's office there hangs a portrait of
Putin and Medvedev. For Putin now
there is no other way out. Either he will
remain in power to the end, or he will
end his days behind bars. He
understands perfectly well that as soon as he
gives up power—really gives it up,
not the way it happened now
with Medvedev—within six months, a year,
or two, they will start going after him. Him,
his businessmen, all those endless
members of the Ozero dacha cooperative (a well-known circle tied to Putin), all those
brothers, Bank Rossiya, all of
Gunvor—they'll all be pursued. And
their money will start being taken away too,
just as they took it from others. So
for him there is simply no
political or even physical future
other than that. I'm used to the fact that
people think someone is backing me.
Just as everyone thinks that I
became Vedomosti newspaper's Person of the Year because of some deal.
A significant number of people are convinced that I
paid for it. By now I've made enough
enemies who are always ready
to fuel such theories. Besides, for the same
employees of companies like VTB,
Rosneft, and Gazprom, it's much
more appealing to believe that I am being
funded by some enemy of theirs, rather than that
I do this because I hate
them for being crooks. Gazprom people,
running around complaining about me to someone,
say, "Well, he must have
Sechin behind him, because Sechin is trying
to bring Miller down." Yes, and when I
do something about Rosneft, they
run around saying, "Well, he was paid by Yug
and
>> But you live on that much."
>> Yes, I'm not hiding how I live,
I'm a lawyer, I have paying clients,
and there are cases I take on simply because
I want to. It gives me satisfaction that
that Kostin, Miller, Sechin, and so on
sometimes, even if it's just some toothache or other
some little one there winces because of my
activities. With
