“Ricochet” from June 2, 2020. FBK investigation into the finances of the head of the Moscow City Duma

6:34 p.m. in Moscow. This is Echo of Moscow radio. Tatyana Felgengauer at the microphone. And I’m pleased to welcome politician Alexei Navalny. Alexei, hello!

Good evening!

Today we’re going to talk about the Anti-Corruption Foundation’s investigation into Alexei Shaposhnikov, the chairman of the Moscow City Duma. Tell us, where did you get 2 billion from?

Tatyana, are you asking me or Shaposhnikov?

No, that’s a question for Alexei Shaposhnikov, asked by the Anti-Corruption Foundation and by everyone joining the Anti-Corruption Foundation in asking it. I want to say right away, for the record, that we invited Mr. Shaposhnikov to join the broadcast and perhaps say something, respond. But he had other business, apparently. He couldn’t make it. He also declined to provide any pre-recorded comment. So our conscience is clear on that score. He had the opportunity to answer or comment, but Mr. Shaposhnikov chose not to use it. So now let’s talk in more detail about what exactly this investigation is. When I first saw it published, I was struck by the fact that somehow, incredibly, one person had declared almost 2 billion. That has to be one of the record figures in officials’ declarations, doesn’t it?

Yes, absolutely right. Thank you very much for inviting me. It’s actually very important to speak on Echo, because Echo was an unwitting participant in this investigation. When Yegor Zhukov asked Shaposhnikov a question on your air, that was where he effectively got Shaposhnikov to promise that all of this would be published in his declaration. Indeed, 2 billion rubles—about $30 million—is a completely fantastic sum even for wealthy Russian officials. In our video, we cite the example of one of our favorites, Mr. Shuvalov, who has probably always been one of the wealthiest officials officially, if not the wealthiest. Well, Shaposhnikov has surpassed even him. So yes, he is now at the very top, among the richest officials. And of course it is more than appropriate now for him, and for Moscow Mayor Sobyanin, whom he works with, to explain this. Because 2 billion rubles cannot simply appear out of nowhere. If you earned 2 billion rubles in a year, how large is your business, exactly, and what do you do? It turns out he would have to be one of the biggest businessmen in the country—except no one has ever heard of his business. And at the same time he has been an official for many years.

A. Navalny: If you earned 2 billion rubles in a year, how large is your business, exactly, and what do you do?

How did the issue even come up that Shaposhnikov had to declare some rather large sums? As I understand it, this was a forced step on his part.

Yes, undoubtedly, it was a forced step on his part. The thing is, back in the summer, during the Moscow City Duma election campaign, I’m not hiding it at all: in a certain sense, we were digging into all the United Russia candidates. Shaposhnikov was the biggest United Russia figure there. We devoted the most time to him and to Metelsky, the leader of United Russia. And he has a company that officially exists. There is official documentation for this company, published as required by law. And there you can see that Shaposhnikov contributes 870 million rubles to the company’s authorized capital. Very often, people contribute large amounts, but in practice it is not cash—it’s some kind of rights, shares, promissory notes, and so on. In Shaposhnikov’s case, it was explicitly cash.

I want to pause on that point, because how can you tell that this was actual cash, actual money?

Because we later saw it. When we obtained documents from the bank, we could see the specific payment orders: on one side, not some company account, but Alexei Shaposhnikov personally; on the other side, his company. And Alexei Shaposhnikov transfers the money from his own account, in cash terms, in three tranches of 290 million rubles each.

So these transactions are documented, and you have those papers? And we can see that Alexei Shaposhnikov is paying in money—not in bonds, not in rights, not in anything else, but in money?

Exactly. That is precisely why he refused to answer this question from our correspondent Dmitry Nizovtsev and was forced to answer it to Yegor Zhukov on your air, because there was nowhere to hide: all the documents exist. He said, “Yes, these sums will be explained in my declaration.” Well, he far exceeded even our expectations, because he declared not some amount in the region of 870 million rubles, but a full 2 billion rubles. And the source of these funds is simply completely inexplicable.

I noticed another issue as well. And your investigation also points to a certain inconsistency, because this declaration is for 2019. Right? We are talking now about the nearly 2 billion that Alexei Shaposhnikov declared for 2019. For comparison, can you say what his income was in 2018?

In 2018 his income was 24 million rubles. That was his highest income. Before that it was around 3 to 5 million rubles. Once it was 20 million rubles. So this little inconsistency, this little detail, is in fact the reason Shaposhnikov should resign immediately, he should step down, because there is now ironclad proof that in 2018 he declared—his declaration is publicly available, anyone can look at it—the full amount of his funds, his income, as 24 million rubles.

A. Navalny: Shaposhnikov is counting on the fact that in today’s climate, you can explain nothing. You can just spit on it He also listed all his bank accounts there. And there was no money in those accounts either. Yet in that same year, when legally he could have had at most 24 million rubles, he pays almost a billion, and only declares his 2 billion the following year. So in this way—and this is simply a fact that cannot be denied, and it is the reason Shaposhnikov refused to come on your air today—he failed to declare an enormous sum, nearly a billion rubles, in 2018. That is unquestionably grounds, first, for him to be removed from office, and second, for an investigation to be launched against him now.

Alexei Shaposhnikov is not the first target of an Anti-Corruption Foundation investigation. And usually officials who are caught in various inconsistencies—let’s call it that—in their declarations, property, and so on, have some standard set of excuses that are supposedly meant to shield them from public anger. For example, “I was in business for 10 years before that,” or “my wife is a very successful businesswoman,” or “my mother-in-law is made of gold—literally gold, I saw off a piece and sell it.” Does Shaposhnikov have any loopholes? You must have checked.

We checked, of course. And we do not see any loopholes. In fact, with others these usually aren’t loopholes either, just more or less skillful lies. Though more often not very skillful.

Well, something they can tell the bosses, so to speak...

The bosses, yes. When Volodin says that a two-level apartment worth half a billion rubles was bought by his mother, who is over 80 years old—is that a plausible lie or not? It seems to me it’s not even a plausible lie. But at least one can say that some kind of legal casuistry has been constructed around it. In Shaposhnikov’s case, we do not see that. We have a completely clear legal fact. In 2018, nearly a billion was paid. And we have his 2018 declaration—there is no such money there. In that sense, Shaposhnikov has cornered himself, it seems to me. And one of the reasons is his demonstrative, forgive the expression, brazenness. Notice how defiantly he behaves, including on Echo of Moscow. He sees himself as an untouchable official. Apparently he is counting on the fact that these days you don’t have to explain anything at all. You can just spit on it. Take the Moscow city prosecutor. We filed a complaint with him. But we should remember that the Moscow city prosecutor owns property in Montenegro and Spain. We also investigated him. In that sense, we are placing much greater hopes on Shaposhnikov’s colleagues in the Moscow City Duma—that they will, in a sense, express a vote of no confidence in him, first of all. And second, most importantly, we are counting on Muscovites themselves, who will look at Shaposhnikov and never again vote for United Russia, and in particular will not vote for Putin or for extending his powers.

A. Navalny: 2 billion rubles is a completely fantastic sum even for wealthy Russian officials

Well, Andrei Metelsky also initially responded rather actively, let’s say, and was very self-assured, but that didn’t last long, frankly.

In fact, almost the same thing happened with Shaposhnikov during Smart Voting—more people voted for his opponent Yefimov. The difference is that he put up a namesake decoy candidate. That was our mistake, mine personally as well, that we did not explain to people which Yefimov they absolutely needed to vote for. But in any case, when you said “public anger,” you kind of smiled...

I said it with a fair amount of irony.

With a fair amount of irony. But in fact, that is exactly what the calculation is based on. It seems to me that the scale of Shaposhnikov’s funds and the scale of his violations are such that, I am absolutely sure, this will seriously hurt Sobyanin, Putin, and these votes.

Over the years the Anti-Corruption Foundation has conducted many investigations. But have there ever been cases like this—these absolutely fantastic 2 billion in a year, in my view? Has anything like this ever happened? What really struck me was not exactly the shamelessness, but this sudden “well, hello there, I had 24 million and now I have almost 2 billion.” Though on the other hand, it’s good that he declared it.

Which raises the question: how much did he not declare? We have certainly had cases where we showed officials owning property of greater value. For example, Chemezov’s apartment worth 5 billion rubles. But to pull 2 billion rubles out of nowhere like a magician, out of a sleeve or a top hat... I repeat, this sum is in money—not in the form of a company, not in the form of some asset, but in the form of... First there were 870 million rubles in cash terms, and now 2 billion rubles too, apparently, this income is also in money. But I don’t recall anything like this, where it just came from absolutely nowhere. In everyone else’s case there was at least some kind of, excuse the expression, cover story in the form of some business that had once existed.

Yes, remind us: Alexei Shaposhnikov was not involved in business, was he?

He has this company, “Your Consultant,” but we can see that there was never any money in that company—the annual revenue was 50,000 rubles. Alexei Shaposhnikov... I actually know him, and have for quite a long time. And the first time I met him—you’ll laugh—was when Dmitry Gudkov was holding a meeting of the Youth Public Chamber. Yes, yes, yes. Right now radio listeners can’t see Tatyana rolling her eyes. There was this strange body many years ago. I came out of curiosity to take a look. Dmitry Gudkov had gathered young people from various parties there. And Shaposhnikov was there. He represented United Russia. At the time he headed the Young Guard of United Russia.

A 100 percent party functionary right from the start.

Yes, a little nomenklatura man. Now he is a big nomenklatura man. He has worked for United Russia for many, many years. I think since the days of Unity (a pro-Kremlin political party that later merged into United Russia), even before the merger of Fatherland and United Russia. In other words, he has been in this United Russia world forever and has never been known for any business activity. As I said at the beginning of the program, this is very important—to earn 2 billion rubles, this would have to be a big business, a very big and very visible business.

Thank you very much. Alexei Navalny, politician, was on the air of the program Ricochet. Tatyana Felgengauer was your host. And let me remind you that on navalny.com and, I believe, on the Echo of Moscow website as well, you can watch and read the materials from this investigation into the head of the Moscow City Duma. Alexei, thank you very much.