Kremlin Critic Navalny on the Former Chancellor “Schröder is Putin’s errand boy who protects murderers”

“My last thought on the plane was that I was dying” BILD: Mr. Navalny, just a few weeks ago you were in a coma. Now people can see you walking through Berlin with your family. How are you doing? Alexei Navalny: “I feel alive. Since waking up from the coma, I’ve been going through several stages of recovery. In the hospital I came to understand what had really happened, and I was reunited with my wife and children. After 28 days in the hospital, I took my first walk in a park, in the rain. It was a feeling of being alive that probably only a few people know. People were jogging past me and I wanted to jog with them—it was wonderful. My last thought on the plane was that I was dying. It’s wonderful to talk to my wife, see my children, and know: I’m alive.” Is there anything you missed while you were in the hospital? Navalny: “On Monday I ate in a restaurant again for the first time. German cuisine, of course. Pork knuckle. It may be a cliché, but I really enjoyed it. I’ve heard Berlin is famous for street food. I’m looking forward to just going out, sitting somewhere, and ordering a kebab and a beer.” “It’s far more intimidating than simply shooting someone” You have a wife and two children. Do you feel a responsibility toward them? Have you considered staying here and not returning? Navalny: “That’s the hardest thing for me. Of course I have a responsibility to my family, but I also have their support. I don’t want to lie: of course I ask myself whether next time they might try not to poison me on a plane but in my apartment, where my wife and children are. But my wife and I made this decision years ago. There has never been a moment when we reconsidered it. I am a Russian politician, a Russian citizen. I believe I am doing something important, and many people in Russia support me. I have to share the risk with them; I have to stand with them in the streets. That is the only way to earn people’s trust.” How does your wife cope with the fact that your life is constantly in danger? Doesn’t she ever say: Alexei, stop politics and do something safe? Navalny: “No one would be more disappointed in me than my wife if I left politics. We’ve never had conversations like that.” Did you ever expect Novichok would be used against you? Navalny: “No, never in my life. Being poisoned with a military-grade chemical weapon is insane. If there weren’t clear results from the German military laboratory and the French and Swedish laboratories, I wouldn’t believe it myself. We know a lot about Putin and the Kremlin. But poisoning a civilian with Novichok so that he dies on a plane—I wouldn’t have thought even the Kremlin was capable of that. But now it has been proven beyond doubt. Denying that I was poisoned with Novichok is like denying chemistry itself. We have learned that Putin’s regime has truly gone off the rails. From the victim’s perspective, it’s crazy. But perhaps their main goal wasn’t to kill me—it was to intimidate people across Russia. Sudden, mysterious deaths are incredibly frightening. It’s far more intimidating than simply shooting someone.” “If there were fair elections tomorrow, we would defeat Putin” Who first told you that you had been poisoned with Novichok? Navalny: “After I woke up, I had severe hallucinations for a while—that’s the worst part of a coma. I don’t remember the exact moment when I understood what had happened. My chief of staff, Leonid Volkov, later told me about an episode where I was sitting there staring into space. When he and Yulia said that I had been poisoned with Novichok, I suddenly sat up and asked, ‘What, Novichok?’ Then I went back to staring.” Why do you think you were poisoned at the end of August? Did it have anything to do with the protests in Belarus? Navalny: “It’s complicated. There were demonstrations in Belarus, and at the same time there were huge protests in Khabarovsk. The Kremlin is terrified because our strategy is working and the approval ratings of Putin and his party, United Russia, are falling. They have no idea what to do about it. Our organization survived the Kremlin’s pressure. I believe this was their last resort. They probably thought: ‘Alexei, this is your fault. We’ve tried every possible way to intimidate you, but you kept going. Sorry, now we have to kill you.’ It was their final attempt before things got worse for them.” Will Putin fall? Navalny: “I’m not a political scientist and I don’t make predictions. But if there were fair elections tomorrow, we would defeat Putin. I have no doubt about it. If there are fair elections, we beat his ruling party. But Putin is obsessed with money and power. He will do anything to stay in power—anything.” Does that mean he will try to kill you again? Navalny: “That’s very optimistic (laughs). I’m not naïve. There are things I simply cannot control. But I have no other country. I’m Russian, not German. Russia is my country. And I know my country is ready to live normally, to be prosperous. The Russian people deserve a happy, ordinary life. The biggest obstacle to that is Putin’s goal of being the richest and most powerful man in the world. I oppose him and try to protect myself, my family, and my people.” Now, however, the Kremlin has frozen her accounts and confiscated her apartment. How do you want to move on when you get back to Russia? Navalny: "This is nothing new for me. My accounts have been frozen multiple times and my apartment has been seized before. I've gotten used to it — unlike the Novichok and coma business (laughs). But I don't know what will happen when I return. Maybe they'll arrest me right at the airport. I simply don't know." “I have no doubt that Schröder receives hidden payments” Ex-Chancellor Schröder, who works for Rosneft among others, has said that there are still ‘no facts’ and that everything remains ‘speculation.’ What would you say to him? Navalny:“That is very disappointing. It is humiliating for the German people, and especially for the German military laboratory. Did they falsify their findings? Gerhard Schröder is paid by Putin. But if he now tries to deny this poisoning attack, that is truly disappointing. One thing is being Putin’s lobbyist. But now he is trying to protect murderers. Even his own party views Schröder’s work very critically. It is humiliating to hear such words from a former chancellor. This is also very difficult for me to understand. After all, he was once the chancellor of the most powerful country in Europe. Now Schröder is Putin’s errand boy who protects murderers. I do not know what hidden payments he has received from Putin. There is official compensation, and I have no doubt there are hidden payments as well.* This is my personal opinion as a lawyer who investigated Rosneft and Gazprom for several years. I do not have a document that says in black and white: ‘Here, Mr. Schröder, this is your briefcase full of money.’ But I have no doubt that Schröder receives hidden payments.*” Schröder and other Kremlin supporters say they have a friendly relationship with Russia. Do you think they are friends of Russia? Navalny: “Can people be friends of Russia if they steal money from the Russian people? I want Russians to have the same access to medical care that I had at the Charité. But not even the richest people in Russia have that access, because such hospitals do not exist there. And why not? Because of Putin and his friends, people like Gerhard Schröder. They embezzle Russian money and keep Russians poor. Think about space technology. When I was a child, we were proud to be at the forefront. That’s over. The country is being hollowed out, and these people are helping to hollow it out. They are not friends of Russia.” “If I were afraid, I would be ashamed” You say you’re used to harassment. But honestly—aren’t you afraid at all? Navalny: “I am not afraid. I’m not crazy; I understand the risks, but I cannot control them. I have to live with that. The truly brave people are activists working in the regions or independent journalists reporting on the Caucasus. Like journalist Irina Slavina, who recently set herself on fire after years of harassment—she was brave. I’m a famous guy; it’s easier for me. Even when someone tries to kill me, generous people help arrange a plane to Germany. But if you’re an independent activist or journalist and you are murdered, nobody hears about it except your family. If I were afraid, I would be ashamed, because I know people in the regions endure much more than I do.” What does your son think? Does he want to return to Russia? Is he worried about you? Navalny: “My son is having the time of his life. He doesn’t have to go to school and can play video games all day. But seriously, my children support me too. They know what it’s like when men in black masks search their room and rummage through their toys. My son had a children’s bank account where he was saving money for a new laptop. Even that account was frozen. We told him: ‘Sorry, Zakhar, but that money belongs to Putin now.’ He understands that something is wrong when Putin needs his 300 dollars to be happy.” Do you believe the plan was for you to die on the flight from Tomsk to Moscow? Navalny: “Yes. The fact that I’m alive is due to a series of lucky coincidences. If the pilots hadn’t made an emergency landing and if the ambulance hadn’t arrived at Omsk airport, I would have died less than an hour and a half after collapsing.” German politicians expect Russia to investigate the attack on you. What would you say to them? Navalny: “There isn’t even an attempt to make it look like an investigation. So far there has been no investigation at all in Russia. I’m not naïve. I believe this was a direct order from Putin, and I do not expect there will ever be a real investigation. I also understand that Western politicians can do little when a Russian is poisoned in Russia. But what matters for the West as well is the use of a chemical weapon. The OPCW must investigate that. Otherwise, it may become very tempting for regimes to use chemical weapons against their opponents. We only know about the failed poisonings; we have no idea how many successful murders there may have been.” “People like this must be pressured” Chancellor Merkel visited you in the hospital. What consequences should follow? What would you recommend to her? Navalny: “Let’s see what it’s about. They murder people to stay in power. They embezzle money, steal billions, and then spend weekends in Berlin or London, buying expensive apartments and sitting in cafés. Sanctions against an entire country do not work. The most important thing is travel bans and asset freezes for those who profit from the regime: oligarchs, senior officials, Putin’s inner circle.” Specifically, how should Germany deal with Valery Gergiev, who has supported Putin for years and is chief conductor of the Munich Philharmonic? Navalny: “They should force him to choose. Gergiev supported Putin in elections. If he loves the regime so much and wants Russia not to follow the European path, then tell him: You are a very talented musician, but we will no longer allow you to enter the EU. You can enjoy Putin’s regime in Russia. Or Gergiev can change course and stop publicly supporting Putin. There are many people like this in Russia—very talented and very hypocritical. They support Putin and benefit from him, but they prefer to live in the West. I’m glad you mentioned Gergiev—he’s the perfect example. People like this must be pressured. They must turn away from Putin because they realize Europe will no longer tolerate them saying Europe is terrible while enjoying life in Europe. Mr. Gergiev probably won’t try to poison me with Novichok, but he supports everything Putin does. People like him should face travel bans—and 99 percent of Russians would welcome that.” There are major differences between Moscow and St. Petersburg and the regions. How do people outside the major cities view Putin? Navalny: “We have shown that people in the big cities are critical of Putin, while it was assumed people outside them either support him or are indifferent. Our most important goal was to destroy the myth that the regions stand behind Putin like a wall. The Kremlin is terrified of that. After the pension reform and after seven consecutive years of falling wages, the Kremlin fears that this myth is collapsing.” Mr. Navalny, one final question: Do you think you will live long enough to see a Russia without Putin? Navalny: “I don’t know. But I am doing everything I can so that my children have the chance to experience a Russia without Putin—a normal, prosperous, European Russia.” * Regarding these statements, Gerhard Schröder declared under oath: “Alexei Navalny’s allegation that I received payments from Vladimir Putin in addition to my official compensation (apparently referring to my remuneration as Chairman of the Supervisory Board of Rosneft and Chairman of the Shareholders’ Committee of Nord Stream AG) is baseless. At no time have I received payments from President Putin or from the Kremlin.”